Bare Shaft Tuning

[rlc1959]

I have not spent much time learning about bare shaft tuning. My arrows fly nice and my Broad heads hit he same place as my field points. i shoot a Dalaa 17" riser with Border Hex 6 long limbs. 50lbs at 28 ". I am drawing 29" so i am at 52 lbs. I switch back and forth from CX 150 with 150 grains up front to CX 250 with 200 grains up front.I shoot off the shelf and my arrows hit right where I look. I do not notice a big difference in cast till beyond 30 yards. Neither one of these arrows (bare shaft) hit the same spot on the target and are flying terrible even at 10 yards. What is a realisitic goal and how much effort should be put in to bare shaft tuning. I can keep my broad head arrows on a pie plate all day out to 35 yards and have terrific flight to the naked eye.

Thanks, Randy

[JimB]

Well,the whole purpose of any type of tuning is to get your broadheads flying well and impacting right with your field points.If you can hit well with broadheads out to 35 yds,I would say you are there.I can't explain why the bare shafts aren't flying well.

[widow sax]

Hey Buddy I just paper tune for me it is easier and tells me exactly what is going on. Do it like you did when you shot compound.    Widow

[rlc1959]

Thanks guys, I was just amazed how bad my bare shafts flew. i was building some arrows and did a close range test just because I was curious. My compound buddies are paper tuning every weekend in my shop. What is a realisitic goal on paper. I cannot imagine getting a bullet hole like a wheel bow when you are shooting fingers off the shelf.

[widow sax]

Rick you can and I do get bulet holes with my setup if you have good form and release its no problem. Your left and right tears you adjust arrow spine and of course up and down adj knock.  Widow

[rlc1959]

Thanks Darren , The next time the guys get the paper rack out I will give it a try.

[Fanto]

My fletched arrows make bullet holes in paper. 1" tear is ok according to the fita coaching guide

[rlc1959]

How far away from the paper are you starting ??

[widow sax]

9 to 10 feet from paper is were I stand and after I get it good there sometimes I check it at longer distance. If you want to get together and do it sometime Rick just give me a call.

[rlc1959]

Will do

Thanks,

[Easykeeper]

Bare shaft tuning is really all I do, I skip paper completely.  Get your bare shafts and fletched shafts grouping together at 25-30 yards and you are as tuned as you will ever need to be.  If your bare shafts are flying poorly something is off in your tune in my opinion.  

I've not tried the Carbon Express arrows but I have a chart that shows a 150 is .495 and a 250 is .418 for spine...both of which sound a little weak for a 52#@29" bow.  Your centershot will make a big difference, as will your arrow length, but just for comparison I'm shooting a 50#@29" recurve and I have a hard time getting .400s to tune, even with light point weights.  I shoot a 31" .340 with 250 grain points with my bow, which is cut a little past centershot.

This is a good link for the bare shaft tuning process if you want to give it a try:

 http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html

[Bjorn]

Once the feathers are on you can't tell much by flight or point of impact. I can shoot fletched wood shafts from 60# to 95# from my 50# bow cut 3/16 past center and does not mean squat.
I get proper bareshaft flight from 80/85 out to 25 yards and that is what counts IMO anyway. Whether you bareshaft tune or paper tune does not matter, either method will get you to ideal spine if you follow the method.

[rlc1959]

Plan to work on some bare shaft testing tonight.
If my arrows correct nicely in the first five yards out and fly true like darts after that how concerned do you need to be ?? I am curious .

[Jakeemt]

Dude if you broad heads and field points are grouping like you say why bother? Sounds like you would just be complicating things. Just my 2 cents take it for what it's worth.

[-snypershot317-]

so i have a question on bareshaft tuning. why bare shaft tune? i come from my question because i was reading up on native american history and i doubt that they bareshafted or paper tuned their bows but could hit a target at a distance...so again not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything im just curious    thank you all again for the advice.

[rlc1959]

Thanks for all the helpful information. I must admit I was skeptical on being able to get a bare shaft to fly straight and hit a spot at 30 yards off the shelf and shot with fingers. After some good tips and advise from fellow Trad Gang members I did some testing. On Easykeepers advice I picked up a couple 300 spine arrows that my compound buddies had laying around my shop. I tried my CX150 and CX250 carbon express and had no success. I tried a 31" Easton ACC 300 Pro Hunter with 145 grain tip and to my suprise it hit right with a feathered arrow out to 30 yards. Did not do a broad head bare shaft but I had a couple of these ACC Pro Hunters with 4" feathers laying around and the bare shaft arrow, the fletched arrow with a field point and a fletched arrow with a 150 Eclipse Broadhead hit the same spot. I am grateful for the tips . I am now a believer.

Take care , Randy

[Easykeeper]

That's great!  

The more bare shaft tuning you do the better your tune, think of it as a process over time instead of a one time event.  Bare shafts also show form flaws very well so keep that in mind if you are having a bad day.

The best way is two or three bare shafts along with two or three fletched.  Shooting groups split up that way makes it very easy to see what's happening and eliminates the possibility of one bare shaft being a little different due to material inconsistencies or nock alignment.  If you get a good bare shaft tune at 30 yards you are shooting very well but even bare and fletched grouping together at 20 yards is probably good enough (the further back you go the better...within reason...lol).  Get a good bare shaft tune and you should be able to just swap the field points for broadheads of the same weight and be good to go.

A selection of point weights is handy when you are tuning too...  

[SS Snuffer]

Easykeeper said it exactly right.
Just what I do.

[NBK]

Man, I'm glad your tuning went well, but I have to say that 300 spine sounds awfully stiff for a 52 lb bow.   Just as a comparison, fellow tgang member Schlaggerman, who easily the best shot I personally know, shoots a 52&28 border recurve and shoots 500 spine with 150 up front.  His arrows fly like lasers with no hint of a wobble.  Maybe just goes to show how individual this sport is.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by rlc1959:
Plan to work on some bare shaft testing tonight.
If my arrows correct nicely in the first five yards out and fly true like darts after that how concerned do you need to be ?? I am curious .

you don't need to be concerned at all about bare shaft tuning if you are getting truly good arrow flight.... what's the point?  

the whole purpose of shooting bare shafts is to get the right arrow spine.... i don't know how many times i've seen guys bare shaft tune to perfection, then put their fletching on and be too stiff and have to start over adding weight to the tip or adjusting the strike plate....

That's one you don't hear much about when tuning arrows is using different strike plate materials.
the difference between a velcro strike, a soft leather strike, and a thin hard strike plate like stingray hide or hard ladigo leather makes a HUGE difference...