Bare Shaft Tuning

[ozzyshane]

Kirk you are so right about the type of side plate Rick Welch shows it in his DVDs Thanks Shane

[rlc1959]

Honestly I do not shoot any better groups with the stiffer arrows but the bare shaft flight with my CX 150 & CX 250 was terrible. I plan to get some 340 spine to test with . I just happen to have some 300 spine ACC Pro Hunters from my compound friends. Thanks again for all the help & advise.

Good shooting, Randy

[Jakeemt]

By the way I noticed you mention bare shafting with broadheads. Do not do it. That is a very unsafe idea.

[BowHunterGA]

I like to bareshaft tune. I have found that if I can get the arrows flying where I am looking bareshaft then once fletched it just gets better. In fact I was testing some new arrows today and here are the results from 15 and 20 yards. 20 is usually as far out as I try to tune. If I can get them grouping like this I know if I miss at 30 yards it was me, not my arrow. :-)


 
4 shots at 15 yards, one flecthed


 
Same arrows at 20 yards, the flyer to the left was all me. I knew it on my release.

These are some new carbons I am trying from Black Eagle Arrows. Currently they are full length .300 spine with 100 grain brass insert and 250 grain point. Total weight 670 grains fletched.

[OBXarcher]

Been a while since I bare shafted. I got away from it due to the "if they fly ok, you're good" mentality.

Getting ready for my bear hunt next month. Figured I would check my bows and do some fine tuning. Bows are both Black Widows, 53 @28, one is a PSA and the other a PL.
Both shot broadheads and field points the same. Then I shot some bare shafts HOLY COW ! THEY FLEW LIKE CRAP.

It took about an hour, a little cutting and I ended up with 30.5" MFX 340's with 150 gn points. I mean they fly like darts out to 25 yds.

I can not over state how much better the bows shoot, feel and sound. It's like shooting two new bows now.

[rlc1959]

That is exactly how I felt. I am 14 days away from leaving for my Nevada Early Archery Mule Deer Hunt and I thought my arrows were tuned and ready to go. What a suprise when I did my bare shaft test. Got it dialed in now and flying better then ever. Thanks for all the help.    

Randy Chamberlin

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by -snypershot317-:
so i have a question on bareshaft tuning. why bare shaft tune? i come from my question because i was reading up on native american history and i doubt that they bareshafted or paper tuned their bows but could hit a target at a distance...so again not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything im just curious     thank you all again for the advice.

So do the history books go into great detail about what happened when those hunters did not get good penetration and the animal ran off wounded to die a slow death...most of us today do not hunt to stay alive like they did and consequently our ethics ought to be a little tighter...we need to be in control of the things we can control and arrow flight is one of those things

DDave

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Soooooo.... let me get this straight Dave. We've already got good arrow flight. both field tips and broad heads are "Shooting like darts" .....

But now we have a moral obligation to bare shaft tune them anyway for better penetration?????           That is absolutely ridiculous IMO....  

[Tutanka]

So, we are supposed to just ignore the errors that the fletchings can mask.  Sure you can put feathers on a middle of the road arrow and get decent arrow flight, maybe even shoot a broadhead. But, what is wrong with trying to improve the tune of the arrow. Bowyers claim that ther limbs are the best design on the planet, speeds that outdo everyone else, and then we're supposed to throw whatever arrow in them and expect consistent results, that's absolutely ridiculous IMO....  

I believe that all Randy is trying to do is understand the various tuning methods, testing the results, and then letting the results speak for themselves.  Shouldn't we all be doing this.  You can to some extent control the arrow, why wouldn't we put the time in to try to find the best combination.

[mahantango]

The way I look at is, the better the arrows fly bare-shaft, the less work the feathers will have to do to correct flight, which translates to quicker recovery from paradox, less energy lost, flatter trajectory and increased penetration. I certainly don't obscess over bare-shafting, but it is a quick way to get in the ballpark with shaft selection. Not an end-all, but a usefull tool.

[katie]

I have a short draw and lower hunting weight (40#) so bare shafting for as near perfect flight is very important to me.  
Great read as I just got my new shafts in yesterday and am set to start tuning them today!  
In my case I feel the extra time spent is worth it.  If not just for the mental aspect when a deer comes in.  I like knowing my set-up is 100% ready and it is all on me.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, we are supposed to just ignore the errors that the fletchings can mask?.

I got news for you brutha.... that is why we put fletching on our arrows is to improve arrow flight.... we are not "masking" anything....

my whole point is that bare shaft tuning isn't necessary to get good arrow flight. it's used as a tool to get the correct arrow spine.... if the arrow is coming out of paradox  with good recovery, and flying straight to the target. Who cares if the same shaft wont shoot without fletching?.... i would be willing to bet the ones that do bare shaft good out to 20 yards, and the ones that don't, but fly nicely with fletching would have no measurable difference in KE....

explain to me this.... you spend all that time getting your bare shafts flying just right. then put fletching and broadheads on them, and about half the time you have to start over again....    Ok.... so you do some more fine tuning and get them flying good.... Do you honestly think if you took the feathers back off and screwed field points on again they are going to  fly well?

let me drop back here a moment and say one more thing. for the guys that love to mess with tuning bare shafts and get better peice of mind over it... that's cool.... for the guys that are getting frustrated because their arrows fly excellent with fletching, and cant get bare shafts to fly.... give it up and just go hunting with your straight shooting arrows.... it don't matter.

you guys git too much time on your hands taking this bare shaft business so far...

[ermont]

Randy, good luck on your hunt. Sounds like you are ready to go!

[JamesKerr]

Originally posted by Kirkll:
So, we are supposed to just ignore the errors that the fletchings can mask?.

I got news for you brutha.... that is why we put fletching on our arrows is to improve arrow flight.... we are not "masking" anything....

my whole point is that bare shaft tuning isn't necessary to get good arrow flight. it's used as a tool to get the correct arrow spine.... if the arrow is coming out of paradox  with good recovery, and flying straight to the target. Who cares if the same shaft wont shoot without fletching?.... i would be willing to bet the ones that do bare shaft good out to 20 yards, and the ones that don't, but fly nicely with fletching would have no measurable difference in KE....

explain to me this.... you spend all that time getting your bare shafts flying just right. then put fletching and broadheads on them, and about half the time you have to start over again....       Ok.... so you do some more fine tuning and get them flying good.... Do you honestly think if you took the feathers back off and screwed field points on again they are going to  fly well?

let me drop back here a moment and say one more thing. for the guys that love to mess with tuning bare shafts and get better peice of mind over it... that's cool.... for the guys that are getting frustrated because their arrows fly excellent with fletching, and cant get bare shafts to fly.... give it up and just go hunting with your straight shooting arrows.... it don't matter.

you guys git too much time on your hands taking this bare shaft business so far...

Kirk I'm sorry I just don't buy what you're saying I have seen a lot of arrow setups fly decently from bows that were just tuned with fletched shafts. Believe me even 3 4" feathers can correct alot of tuning and arrow flight problems. Now translate this to hunting. An arrow that leaves the bow flying almost perfectly straight within 2 feet from the bow is driving all of its energy in a perfectly straight line. However those mediocre flying arrows a lot of times move around quite a bit the first couple of feet from the bow before the fletching can stabilize the shaft. Most of the time our eyes are not good enough to see this so we think we are getting good arrow flight. This arrow that wobbles a ways before straightening up is losing some energy due to sideways deflection the same way a limb on a bow loses effeciency if they are not tillered perfectly. So why lose this energy if there is a way to fix it?

[Bjorn]

Once the feathers are on I can shoot shafts from 60-90 out of my bow and they seem to fly perfectly. Wet those fletchings down and shoot broadheads; and all hell brakes loose-except the ones that were bareshaft tuned to my bow-75/80. Fletched shafts will hide a multitude of sins.      

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok.... i give up... you guys have made some good points..... i'm going to set up the chrono and shoot some arrows that are perfectly tuned bare shaft and ones that are too weak shooting bare shafts, but fly excellent with fletching and see if its measurable at 20 yards.... i'll set the chrono up at the target... and let you know what my results are....

i'm seriously anal about balancing the limbs of all my bows. i suppose i really should give this bare shaft business more time and testing...

The wet feather test is something i've always done with broadhead tuning Bjorn.

[Sixby]

Kirk, Well spoken by a true Oregon chainsaw bowyer. I agree with ya bro. These fellas made some great points. I know one thing. I don't know it all and I'm willing to learn.

God bless, Steve

[Flying Dutchman]

Interesting discussion. I gave up bare shafting woodies a long time ago. I guess when I can hit a target on 55 yards there can't be much wrong with my arras.

It will be interesting to see the chrono results from Kirk though!

I also think that bare shafting tells much about your form.

[Caughtandhobble]

A bow setup that has been properly bare shaft tuned is far more forgiving than one that will just shoot decent. I am anal about my tuning, but after I learned the proper way to tune meaning, bare shaft, broadhead, paper tuning my shooting ability has vastly improved. As mentioned the wet feather with broadhead test will tell the truth about how well any bow/arrow combination is tuned very fast... As far as KE, a well tuned arrow will have a higher KE rating all day, it's just physics.

[gringol]

The notion that an arrow loses ke due to sideways deflection makes intuitive sense, but has anyone actually tested it?  We throw around a lot of "facts" but few of them seem to have much experimental backup.  We might be talking about a loss of less than 1 fps.  I am curious to see some real data.

If I had a choice between hunting or retuning to get perfect bareshaft flight, I'm going hunting.  Bareshafting may give some of you peace of mind, but it is not the holy grail and is over rated imo.