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Author Topic: a heavy bow article worth reading  (Read 1713 times)

Offline ironmike

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a heavy bow article worth reading
« on: August 03, 2013, 01:09:00 AM »
USE HEAVY BOWS

by

Tom Imler, Jr.


I have felt for some time the urge to answer some of the opinions expressed on the relative merits of light and heavy bows. Because of the weight of my bows I have become quite innocently, and believe me, quite unintentionally embroiled in this deadly feud, so duck your heads, you "light bow" boys, here it comes.

First let me be understood. There seems to be no question that a 50 pound bow will kill deer and even larger game quite successfully. However, we also know that a 22 rifle will kill big game hut is barred by law in most states because it is not considered adequate- not enough margin of safety. Why then should we be satisfied with minimum killing power when we can quite easily have better?

For some time now I have heard said and seen published the statement that a 50 pound bow will do anything a 75 pound bow will do and that it is probably even better for all round big game hunting. It is usually said that the advantage of the speed with lighter bows and arrows more than off-sets the advantages of the heavier tackle. Don't let 'em kid you, fellows. If this is true then there are a lot of physics professors over the world that have been laboring under delusions for many years.

Most of the fellows who make such statements base their whole argument on an erroneous assumption. They generally assume all men are such weak creatures that when they shoot a 75 pound bow they shake violently with exertion and only succeed in drawing 21 or 22 inches of a 28 inch arrow. I assure you this is is not the case. It has been my observation that almost any man can build up to a much heavier bow than 50 pounds. When the time comes to shoot big game the archer has no trouble drawing any bow with which he can normally shoot a full clout. He is more apt to overdraw on normal length arrows than to under- draw 3 or 4 inches, as is claimed.

Now, think for yourselves. If a 50 pound bow will throw a 500 grain arrow at a given velocity and through a given trajectory curve, then a 75 pound bow- will throw a heavior ar row through an equally flat trajectory curve (conceding, of course, proper design of equipment) - Then it logically follows that a heavier arrow traveling at the same velocity expends, on striking,, a greater amount of energy Then too, a heavy object moving at a given speed is much harder to stop than a lighter one because of its inertia. In the case of an arrow this energy is expended almost entirely in penetration. Therefore add energy and you add penetration.

Aside from the ballistics on paper, I have actually seen many big game animals killed with both light and heavy bows. What I have seen more than bears out anything that the ballistics show. There is always a fuss raised about penetration and narrow heads are advocated by some (usually those with 50 pound bows) to get penetration. I say use a heavier bow and you don't have to cut down on the width of the broadhead to get penetration. We all knew that a 50 pound bow will many times completely penetrate the chest cavity of a deer with the common broadhead. Any penetration beyond this point is useless. Death, is caused by hemorrage and the extent this hemorrhage is determined by the width of thc hole cut by the broadhead. The obvious thing then is to use wider broadheads (within practical bounds) until all the energy is expended in the job it is sent to do.

The additional penetration obtained by use of heavier equipment makes possible those shots in which the arrow goes "clean through" a big boar or a bear and keeps on going instead of just sticking in his ribs. To those of us who have been fighting for ten years to get archery hunting legalized in our respective states these demonstrations of penetration have been of tremendous varlue. I have actual slow motion natural color movies of such shots to back up my stories. The greatest archery hunter of modern times, Art Young, used very heavy bows and arrows and wide heavy hroadheads when he went after big game.

We surely haven't forgotten the lesson learned by the English en the invention of the long bow. Those who claim that weight of arrow should be sacrificed for the high trajectory should remember that the high trajectory bow was replaced by the English long bow that threw a heavy arrow. Penetration of armor was thus attained when the high trajectory bows and light arrows had proven useless. The men who came to these conclusions were not playing at archery-their lives depended upon the effectiveness of their bows. Penetration of animal flesh is similiar, in as much as it depends upon striking power.

This leads up to weight of arrow and bow. I'm afraid I'm going to shock terribly some of the "light bow tribe" by saying that in one most important point I heartily agree with their advice to the novice. The beginner in field archery should never start with a bow over 50 pounds no matter how strong he is. Many men should start with much lighter. Bad habits of form and loose are easily formed by a bow that is the least bit too strong.

But here my agreeable nature ends. Any normal man (physical handicaps, of course, are excepted) can, by starting with a weak bow and systematically building up to a stronger one, draw and shoot sucessfully a much stronger bow than he ever believed possible. Most normal men can use a 70 to 80 pound bow with ease. Why! even Joe Cosner1 with his old broken down muscles, was able to build up to a 70 pound bow and he even hits things once in a while, even if they are only gopher holes. If Joe can do it, anyone can. I'm not asking anyone to "over bow" himself. I made my 100 pound bow only for bear and for heavy penetration stunts. I'm no superman and I prefer my little 80 pound Osage bow for roving, but I use the heavier one with ease. I merely say don't be satisfied with that 50 pound how just because you won't build up those biceps and triceps. The factor of physical exercise is important in field archery, so why not get the most out of it.

Far be it from me to force my ideas down anyone's throat, so if any of you have read this far and don't agree, just stop here. There are many of archery's "old Foggies" who will "pooh pooh" this writing. There are other "old Foggies," myself included, who will say, "Boy that's telling 'em."

I address it not to any of them, but to the new fellow, who should, by all means, hear the "Heavy Bow" side of the story, which I have tried to present as logically as I am able. It's all in fun. As long as we can have differance of opinion and friendly arguments, archery will never get in a rut.

Offline giff

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 02:17:00 AM »
I have no doubt that a heavier bow will impart more energy into a target than a lighter one will. I just don't understand why that extra energy is needed. My 52# recurve with a 560 gr arrow will go clean through anything I want to shoot. Your deer won't be any "more deader"   :)   than mine will, so I will have fun with my longer practice sessions. If you like heavy bows, then I respect that.

Offline ironmike

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 02:38:00 AM »
this article is from the forties,...most dangerous game hunters lean heavy,i never dropped a grizzly with a bow,but i recon i wouldn't attempt it without a heavy hit and a ripping broadhead,most guy's today have a professional rifle hunter back them up, i find it interesting that it might not be needed with a heavy bow...interesting , that's all.

Offline xtrema312

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 09:03:00 AM »
Comparing the .22 rifle to a 50# bow for big game hunting is a joke.  No comparison what so ever.  Now if you want to compare the 30-30 to a 50# bow that is a little more realistic if you want to then apply that to using more power for larger, tougher, and more dangerous game.
1 Timothy 4:4(NKJV)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

Firefly Long Bow  James 4:14
60" MOAB 54@29 James 1:17

Michigan Longbow Association

Offline ironmike

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 12:02:00 PM »
well,considering a 22 ca in a chest shot,and a 50# in a chest shot,it is,an 80#or 100# bows with an 800 or 1000 grain arrow will blast through the breast plate,all african big game hunters know that.but for deer ,elk or turkey,i'd agree with you..either way..i find the article interesing, ...how many states alowed bowhunting in the 1940's when the article was written,and how convincing the argument to fish and game that a bow could complete the task,the heavy bow must have been used to aid the speculative idea of dropping dangerous game with one,hence the approval of archery method.

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 12:13:00 PM »
Nobody screams foul louder than the light bow advocates!! EVER!!
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline ChuckC

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 12:30:00 PM »
amen
ChuckC

Offline normf

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2013, 02:08:00 PM »
It's what you can shoot accurately on the first shot after sitting in a tree stand in cold weather for a few hours. I can shoot heavy bows when I'm warmed up and standing on the ground but for hunting deer from a tree stand I go lighter. But that's just my preference.
NFetscher

Offline Traxx

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2013, 02:23:00 PM »
Nobody screams foul louder than the light bow advocates!! EVER!!

I completely disagree with that statement.Id say its pretty equal.
Target archery is seeing how far away you can get and still hit the bull's eye. Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get and never miss your mark.

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 03:15:00 PM »
Are to, are to, are to!   ;)
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline Phrogdrvr

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 03:22:00 PM »
That essay was published in the December 1942 issue of "Ye Sylvan Archer"  

I am amused that "this deadly feud"  has been going on for so long.  That's neat to me.  I am also, quite often, impressed how folks from back then were able to express themselves.  I think, as a whole, we have lost that ability in our culture.  I was glad to read this essay, and not just because my favorite bow is a 75# Fedora longbow.

I especially like how he signed off "It's all in fun..."

Tom

Offline bobman

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2013, 03:29:00 PM »
I like bows in the hi 60lb to low 70 Lb range

I'm in my early 60s age wise and have no problem drawing them

fact is we are a bunch of soft out of shape wimps as a country today...hard work is now done with machines

I don't have a problem with guys using a 45-50 lb bow on whitetails and due to recent diagnosis I may be doing that myself...but no one will ever convince me they are as effective as a 70lb bow

Offline ironmike

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2013, 03:30:00 PM »
that's i phrogdrvr ,the article is in and of itself a historic read,quite enjoyable.

Offline dougedwards

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2013, 03:46:00 PM »
Being a new shooter I am struggling to move up to a 50 lb bow from 45 lbs.  But if I could draw and shoot accurately a 150 lb bow I would use it.
But you brethren are not of the flesh but of the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of Christ lives within you. Romans 8

Offline SKITCH

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2013, 03:48:00 PM »
Just a question.  Wouldn't time and advancements in material/ technology and knowledge on how to build a bow have to be part of any conversation regarding a bow built 70 years ago vs. any bow built today?  Not that a 50# modern bow would stand up to a comparably built 70-80# modern bow but if talking about opinions held 70 years ago???  Wouldn't today's modern trad bow be a completely different animal as far as cast, speed and other parameters involved with getting an arrow from point A to point B?  And, wouldn't this have to be a part of the conversation on which would be proper to hunt with?  I am certainly NO expert but I know there are folks on here that are and it is certainly an interesting discussion. I enjoy reading what you guys have to say on these topics. Good stuff for us that are not as far down the Trad road!
"A nation with little regard for it's past will do nothing in the future to be remembered" 
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Offline Easykeeper

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by normf:
It's what you can shoot accurately on the first shot after sitting in a tree stand in cold weather for a few hours. I can shoot heavy bows when I'm warmed up and standing on the ground but for hunting deer from a tree stand I go lighter. But that's just my preference.
A very good point and one that is often overlooked in this type of debate.  A few hours in a treestand in sub-freezing weather combined with the heavy clothing required in those conditions makes what is easy when warmed up...not so easy.  

Since it's usually only the first shot that counts I want a bow I can shoot accurately when I'm freezing cold and dressed like the Michelin man.  Unfortunately that's significantly less than what I could comfortably shoot when on the move and generating heat or on a nice summer evening.  I'm only deer hunting and around 50# is plenty for me.  Easy to shoot all day at targets, light enough I can handle it in less than ideal conditions.

Online Archie

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2013, 04:22:00 PM »
I can't argue with the guys who have proven that lighter bows can do the job.   But I got a bad hit on a 10-yard shot on a whitetail doe with my 48-pounder and lost that deer. The doe saw me and spun just as I released.  I think that, based on where I hit her, had I been shooting a heavier bow, I would have harvested that deer instead of losing it -- probably eaten by coyotes within a few days.
Life is a whole lot easier when you just plow around the stump.

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Offline Phrogdrvr

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2013, 04:32:00 PM »
Skitch,

Check out what Harry Drake did with his bows in the '40s through '70s.  Modern bowyers are hard-pressed to match him... and that's no insult to them.

Tom

Offline SKITCH

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2013, 05:05:00 PM »
Thanks phrog I'll look it up!!
"A nation with little regard for it's past will do nothing in the future to be remembered" 
   Lincoln

Offline Rob W.

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Re: a heavy bow article worth reading
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2013, 05:10:00 PM »
I have killed deer with bows from the high 40's# to low 70's#. None of them lived long enough for me to ask them which was better.  :p  


Rob
This stuff ain't no rocket surgery science!

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