bare shafting a little today. what do y'all think?

[johnnyk71]

so, i'm working on tuning my new RER Retro. here are the specs: it's 53# at my 28" draw. i'm starting off with full length GT 5575s. they are 32.5" uncut. i've got 100 grain brass inserts in them, and i'd like to shoot 175 grain points. i know this produces a way-weak setup as-is. i'm left-handed. i'm gonna post a series of two pictures with results.

1.) 15 yards, 275 grains up front (175 grain field points). three fletched, three bare. everything was way left (weak for a lefty). even the fletched ones were not consistent at all.

2.) 15 yards, switched to 225 grains up front (125 grain field points). Still way weak, but the fletched ones are much more consistent.

my question is, how much do you guys think i will have to cut off? they are too long anyway at 32.5". i draw right at 28", so i can afford to take some off. what's a good starting increment? i'm guessing i'll have to cut close to a whole inch. but that setup gives me a 600 grain arrow (total weight) at 11.3 gpp. pretty good weight if i can get 'em to fly right. what do y'all think?

  [/url] [/IMG]  here's the first group

here's the second group
  [/url] [/IMG]

[Easykeeper]

Cut them back slow, you can't put it back...don't ask how I now this...      

I think carbon shafts are very sensitive to length, the inch you proposed sounds reasonable and should make a noticeable difference.  You could easily take of at least two inches, even a little more, and have plenty of clearance for a glove on your bow hand.  If you are aiming for a certain point weight sneak up on it or you will go too far.  Maybe try four first and see what you get with two bare and two fletched before you do the rest.

Once you start getting close, move back a little if you can.  Twenty yards is good, twenty five or thirty is even better...but work your way back or you end up chasing arrows that plane off the target.

[Pete McMiller]

IMO you should stick with the insert and point weight that you want to ultimately shoot.  With a 28" draw you have at least 3" to play with.  I'd start with 1/2" and see what happens.  It will move your arrows closer to the middle.  Depending on how far they moved you may be cutting another half inch a couple of times.  When you get down to the nitty gritty cut a 1/4" or even an 1/8"  Really depends on how fast they are moving over.  You may get down to 29-30" before you are done.

[johnnyk71]

thanks, guys. that's what i thought. i input the current stuff into Stu's calculator and it hurt my feelings, haha! i imagine i'll ultimately be cutting off a good bit, but i have a lot of room to play around, and i'll take 'er easy. thanks again!

[MCS]

Correct me please if I am wrong,but your fletched arrows are hitting there mark. Wouldn't you just leave them? They look good to me.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

I just want to add before you go cutting, I was shooting the same specs, all showed weak!

I cut my shafts 2 times and found out I was getting a false reading. Turned out my shafts were too stiff.  

I went from 250 up front to 350 and it has helped but I am still a little stiff.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Take some of these folks suggestions to heart before you chop your shafts.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=130167

[Fanto]

is it cut to centre?

if yes, then the most you will get out of a 5575 is 29" with 225 up front.

I have tried and tried and this from an older bow 55# so very similar.

if you go to 7595 you will be able to use as much weight as you like and then some. I run 325 total on a 30" an it tunes to the 55# bow.

[johnnyk71]

definitely taking what you guys have said into account. i actually went out and shot a 7595 that i borrowed from a friend. same weight (275 up front), but it was cut to about 31- 31.5".

shot very fast, quiet, and right where i looked. may make more sense to trade out shafts than cut.

@ MCS, those were tipped with 125's, and i was hoping to up my point weight a bit to 175. but you're right, an option would be to use a 125-grain broadhead instead.

[Easykeeper]

I'm not too far off from your numbers, a little lighter bow but a longer draw length.  I'm shooting a 50#@29" recurve and I draw slightly over 29".  I use a 31" .340 with a 250 grain point and get great bare shaft flight, bare and fletched grouping together at 25-30 yards.  Broadheads and field points on the same spot.

What works for one doesn't always work for another, but I'm not surprised at your results.

[LimBender]

Now I see you are left handed.  I was getting very confused.    :D  

I'm very close (#2 less) and recently finished up some 55/75 centershots.  I'm shooting 100 inserts with 250 points and ended up about 29.5" and 595 grains with them showing a hair stiff.  I'm kind of surprised you would be that weak with a 400 spine arrow and 225 up front.  I would have expected the arrows at 15 to group a little closer, with the arrow nocks on the bareshafts pointing more left.  

Anyway, like was said, just slowly cut back until you get there, and I only bareshaft with 1 arrow.

It's fun making up the arrows you envision taking a deer with.

[johnnyk71]

some of the inconsistency could have been form issues on my part.

what was interesting, is that the 5575 bare shafts turned COMPLETELY sideways in flight, about halfway to the target at 15 yards (with 275 up front), but straightened out and stuck in the target almost completely straight every time. was quite the thing to see.

i'm kind of leaning towards swapping out for some 7595 shafts. anybody want to trade some for some 5575's?

[Huh]

They aren't that far left.  Before you swap out arrows for a shaft that I have shot out of 73 lb compound I might suggest that you see what dropping point weight or building out your strike plate does.  I bet you can get those shafts to tune by tweaking your strike plate, brace height and maybe a little cutting.  Anyway, I wouldn't jump ship just yet if I were you.  

I am not willing to cut all my shafts at once, so I take two shafts and cut them 1/2" at a time.  One shaft fletched and one bare shaft.  I shoot the two shafts 6 or so times and write down the relative orientation after each "end".  Make adjustments and repeat....it keeps me happy and I do not have to cut all my arrows before I find something that shoots well.  Plus if I miss a false weak or stiff and cut too much I only end up with two punky arrows....works for me.

[katman]

Originally posted by MCS:
Correct me please if I am wrong,but your fletched arrows are hitting there mark. Wouldn't you just leave them? They look good to me.

MCS, with bareshafts that weak at 15yds you would need a lot of fletch to control a large broadhead. Heck at 20yds bare shafts would miss the target. Fletching can hide errors that bareshafts do not. It is all about getting excellent arrow flight for the most forgiving setup and maximum penetration.

Pete hit it on the head, start trimming since you confirmed weak with tip weight reduction.

[Bladepeek]

I think before I made a complete change, I'd try Huh's suggestion. Take just two shafts and cut them back a bit and fletch just one. Worst case you lose two shafts which you can do out shooting in the woods anyway. I would bet by the time you take a couple inches off in 1/2" increments, you will be quite close.

[LookMomNoSights]

For what its worth:  a 3555 cut to 29.5 with factory insert and 200 grn up front will fly absolutely perfect out of your set up.....just sayin'.  4 4inch shields,  Easton super 3-D nock and 7 inch wrap....all that will put you just under 10 gpp.   I shoot your weight at your draw.....have been for a long time now!  Unless you are working up a mix for cape buffalo,  this will kill anything you need it to AND keep your trajectory fast and flat (as a trad bows gonna get).  Trim ( 1/4 inch tops!)  both ends of your shaft before ANY arrow tuning!  You'll be starting with a straighter shaft!!!

[Piratkey]

Start to rise the nock set location and check again the spine.

[johnnyk71]

great suggestions, guys. thanks to all. i'm gonna tinker some more today.

[Shawn Leonard]

I have tuned the same bow and a .500 spine cut to 29.5"s with 190 grains up front is what tuned perfect. I draw 28.5"s and was shooting 54#s. If you cut them .400 spine to 31"s you will need all of that 275 grains up front to keep them tuned. .400 spine carbons should be left to the 59-65# bows out there unless you leave them awful long or have a real long draw on the lighter weight bows. Shawn

[johnnyk71]

Thanks, Shawn. i was shooting the .400 spine arrows (5575s) at full length (32"). they showed way weak with 275 up front. i have a bunch of 3555s (.500 spine). maybe i'll cut one or two off to 29.5 or so and see how they do. i have a lot more of them than anything else.