paper tuning

[dougedwards]

Coming from the compound world I have always determined spine, lengh and point weight of arrows by shooting fletched arrows through paper. From everything that I have read on setting nocking points for trad bows the nocks should be set as much as 3/8" high and the nock on my 66" 50@28 HH Owl is 1/4" high.

Shooting through paper at two steps back I get a pretty severe point low/fletching high result with the vertical hole usually being in excess of an inch long. However, when I step back to 10 yards I am getting pretty close to a bullet hole usually. Of course it all depends on the consistency of my form and release and I am new to shooting stickbows.

What would you do?  Make adjustments?

 Doug

[Bladepeek]

I've found most of my bows, depending on the bow and the arrow diameter, like 1/2" +- 1/8". You might want to raise the nock point another 1/4" and see if that improves flight or makes it worse. Easy change to try.

[xtrema312]

I would go higher and work down.  That way you rule out the bounce off the shelf.

[dougedwards]

So, if I am getting a point low/ fletching high result I should try raising the nock point??

This seems backwards to me but the bouncing off the shelf could be what is going on because I do hear the arrow making contact with something as I release.  A type of "click" sound.  

I will try raising a bit.

 Doug

[xtrema312]

On a compound with many rest types you will not see a bounce when too low.  You get a low tear.  With a trad bow off the shelf, you will bounce off the shelf when too low causing a high tear. You can see it sometimes paper tuning if you shot a few different distances.  You will see the tear move up and down as it corrects.  Best way to tune is to start too height and work down.  If you see the vertical leveling out more and more as you move down and then see it start moving up a little, you have gotten too low.  It is okay I think when shooting off the shelf to have a little high tear.  It is very hard, for me anyway, to get just right and not get bounces with a release issue.

[Shawn Leonard]

You have to shoot from 12 ft. at least when paper tuning Trad bows, the arrow is still going thru paradox from 6ft. I always paper tune from 12-15 ft. That said I would think you need to up that knocking point. Most of my bows are at least 1/2 inch to 5/8ths. If you look a lot of bowyers recommend starting at 5/8ths. and working up or down from there. On my ILF bows my nock points are always a bit lower, like 3/8ths. Shawn

[Easykeeper]

Leave everything you know about tuning a compound at the door when you start tuning your longbow. While they are both bows and both accelerate an arrow, when it comes to tuning they are different beasts.

There's lots of way to achieve a good tune, my favorite is bare shaft tuning. I pretty much follow the procedure as outlined by O.L. Adcock several years ago which can be found here these days...

  acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning  

The basic procedure is to let the way your bare shafts group compared to your fletched shafts tell you where to have your nock point (and point weight or arrow spine/length). It's a very easy process that becomes even simpler after you get the hang of it and is very well described in the link. The easiest way is to have a selection of different weight field points and do as the link describes. The idea of starting with a high nock point when you do your tuning is a good one, makes things simpler. Start close, if your arrows setup is off more than a little a bare shaft can plane enough to miss your target (depends on the size or your target...lol). Move back in increments as your tuning progresses. When you get your bare shafts and fletched grouping together at 25-30 yards you have everything pretty close to perfect in my opinion but theoretically you could keep moving back even further. At that point I've never had to change a thing to shoot broadheads, just make sure they are the same weight as your field points and obviously shoot them for peace of mind.

You don't say if you are shooting three under or split finger, but many three under shooters end up with a significantly higher nock point than 0.25" above level. I shoot split and mine is higher than that too at 0.625" above a line perpendicular to the shelf.

If you aren't doing it now, I would recommend using two nock points, one above your arrow and one below, especially if you are shooting three under (I use two even shooting split). No disadvantages and it can eliminate a source of potential trouble. Tied-in nock points are easier on gloves and tabs.

I haven't shot an arrow through paper in years, but I don't think paper tuning at 10 yards is really telling you anything, the fletching is in control at that point.

[Shawn Leonard]

The problem with OL method is your brain adjust real quick and will adjust so your arrows hit where you look pretty quick. Try it, take an arrow you know is way over-spined, shoot it several times concentrating on your spot. It may be way left at first(right-handed shooter) but by the 10th arrow or so you will be hitting your spot pretty close. The brain does wonderful things! Shawn

[Cari-bow]

I would try higher Doug.
One needs to try different things and have an open mind and always let the bow tell you what it likes.
Your form needs to be consistent or all methods will give results which will vary.
I like the paper tuning method because I get my results much faster then with bare shafting. Like Shawn 12 ft. is where I do most of my tuning from. I will check at 6 ft and farther then 12 some times just to see if I'm getting odd results.
I've paper tuned for over 20 years and people that say it doesn't work for bare bow just don't know how to.
Abe

The nocking point on all my bows are from 5/8" to 3/4" high. The tear in the paper is telling you you should lower the nock more but I would be willing to bet this is a false reading.

I always paper tune from 6' and then from about 12'-15'. When I get everything right, I have no problem shooting bullet holes from 6'.

Bisch

[dougedwards]

http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html

I had to bookmark this page for future reference.  Very good stuff in that read.  

I shoot three fingers under and moved my nock point to 1/2" above the horizontal line leading from a right angle of the shelf.  This makes no sense to me but I did it.  What I discovered from only shooting fletched shafts is that the back of my arrows must have been hitting the shelf upon release. It even has a different sound now that I have moved the nock point up.

Tomorrow I will experiment further with bare shafts but because my form is still in it's infancy stage I am going to keep things within 20 yards. It is rare that I shoot a six arrow group within 8" at 30 yards.  I may try some more paper tuning just for some discovery purposes at a much later date.

Thanks for the help guys.  This is all new to me.

 Doug