Feedback to Gordon Composites ?

[Flying Dutchman]

I am wondering if we could put some pressure on Gordon Composites? They are the only one who deliver the glass, there is no competition, so they keep on sleeping... I hear a LOT complaints about the poor quality Gordon delivers these days. Silver streaks, white milky spots, limb cracks and so on. It seems that these imperfections are caused by microscopic bubbles in the glass, which are invisible when not glued. So it seems just a poor QC form Gordon, which should be solved. Bowyers do their outmost to build us nice custom bows, but oh so may times they are confronted with this poor quality, bowyers can't help it, because it can be seen only after the gluing on or, after shooting a bow for a time. Bowyers send poor qualities  back only to have it replaced by an even worse quality. Many bowyers advise already to choose light colors for the limbs, otherwise the flaws from Gordon is more visible. In my opinions this a ridicolous situation! I like dark limbs!There are also already bowyers who mention the poor quality of Gordon at their site, stating that the bowyer is not responsible for the poor quality Gordon delivers.
Not a bad word about the bowyers, they deserve our highest respect I think! But I can imagine it must be highly frustrating for them too!
We pay good money for our bows and it is a shame what Gordon does! Even my brand new RER has a silver streak on the limbs, I know it is only cosmetic, but that is NOT what we pay for. Some bows of me even developed limb cracks after some time.
It seems that Gordon has no message to the bowyers who complain and just go on with their lousy quality.
Tradgang has many members and a lot of fine bowyers who are sponsor here. I think we might have some power. Couldn't we organise something and call Gordon to justice?
 I just hate it when my expensive bows show the imperfections Gordon is responsible for, not to speak for limb cracks!

What do you feel? Is there some possibility to join our forces?

[wingnut]

Not even a chance.  Actually they wouldn't even miss the business from Trad Bowyers.  We work directly with them and not through a jobber.  I've also tried a number of clear glass options from around the world.  Still the best we can find is Gordon's glass.

There are not that many streaks in the glass in my experience.  Some of what bowyers blame on the glass are actually glue voids.  They are avoidable.  Cracks that develop down the road are not necessarily the glass either.

The message is that clear glass limbs are very hard to build well and that's why most charge a lot more for them.


Mike

[legends1]

Mike is right. Gordon's opinion is take it or leave. Like Mike said they wouldn't miss the business. "So it is what it is"

[Flying Dutchman]

This is weird... I can imagine they can miss the business, but I think they do have a responsibility to deliver proper products?

[Flying Dutchman]

Double post, sorry.

[Terry Green]

No...TG wont be taking any 'action against'.

Maybe there's a small operation needed just to fill the need....cottage industry....high quality.  To band their attitude is 'take it or leave it'.  In this day and age, customer service and quality is paramount.....sounds like their main buiz doesn't have to be clear...so they take that attitude cause we are tiny in comparison.

I would guess there are other industries out there that would lick clearer quality...but I don't really know.

[Flying Dutchman]

Sorry Terry, I used the wrong words here. Keep in mind that I am Dutch, trying to express myself in English. I replaced it for " feedback to"  That should be a better expression I think and more in line with TG.

Anyhow....
Copied directly from the site of Gordon:

" Our high performance composite material has been used since 1953 to make the world's strongest, most reliable limbs. Our limbs are unmatched in deep deflection. As the premium supplier to the bow manufacturing industry, we are proud to be part of this growing industry that promotes a sport that can be enjoyed at almost any age and throughout one's lifetime."

Since they are "proud" maybe there is a chance they are open for feedback?

[McDave]

 [Tradgang has many members and a lot of fine bowyers who are sponsor here. I think we might have some power. Couldn't we organise something and call Gordon to justice?/QUOTE]

You could if they were doing something illegal, which no one has suggested that they are. Or if they weren't abiding by the terms of their warranty, which evidently is not the case either.  Probably if someone could offer them a technical solution which wouldn't increase their costs or was at least recoverable in increased sales price, they would do it.  But in the absence of any real competition, they have no motivation to change. Angry letters from Tradgang would be given all the attention that would be given to a letter from an old lady to city hall complaining that the pigeon poop needs to be cleaned off the park benches more often.

It reminds me of the days when Detroit was still king of cars.  There was no motivation to make a better car in those days, other then cosmetically.  It took strong foreign competition before US car manufacturers woke up to the fact that they had better start making fundamentally better cars, because the alternative was to be driven out of business.

Fiberglass has been a big success for the last 60 years or so, of which bows have been but a small part, as was mentioned.  But its replacements are already coming into general use.  Companies aren't going to spend a lot of money on fiberglass R&D anymore if they perceive it to be a dying industry, or one that is shrinking at the least.

[jsweka]

I think wingnut summed it up best and he should know.  Yes, Gordon is the primary supplier to the archery industry, but you need to keep in mind that traditional bows are a very small part of that industry.  You don't see compounds, crossbows, or even Olympic style recurves with clear glass, so the clear glass market is really really small.  I'm actually surprised they mess with it at all (just like green glass).

wingnut also mentioned glue voids which folks blame on the glass and I agree too.  I'm just a hobbyist bowyer building for myself and close friends/relatives.  I use a lot of smooth-on when gluing up a bow.  It squirts out everywhere and makes a mess, but I've only ever had streaks in one bow and they were pretty minor.

[Flying Dutchman]

And up

[DayTripper]

There are West System and U.S. Composites.They have very good products.