penatration

[4-fingers]

hey i was wondering if theres anything i could make(thats not to hard)that would be like a deers chest and shoot it to see what kinda penatration i would get as if it were a real deers chest.

[Crash]

I don't think anyone has come up with a consistent, reliable alternative yet.  You just need to shoot as many deer as allowed by law and let us know how it worked out.   :D

[Chas]

4-fingers, how about a road-kill. I'm sure somebody here has attempted or tested with some dead animals. I believe there was a thread here years ago about somebody shooting a dead cow. It turned out to be an amuzing thread. I believe the title was, "You can't kill a dead cow with a field point", or something like that.

[brmize]

I have seen tests where they used a box full of balitstics gell with bones in it and covered in hide. Also seen wet newspaper with bones too. These were meant for bullet tests though.

Brian

[Bob Morrison]

4, Why try it yourself. There are plenty of guy's here that have already done it for you, most or some one real animals that can tell you what works and what doesn't. Fact:heavy arrows with good speed will go though most animals.... If you don't or cant hit where you should it don't matter what your setup is. If I could hit EXACTLY where I should everytime, a 600 grian arrow at 150fps will kill any animals in north America.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

When everything goes perfect, almost any arrow works. IMHO artificial medium testing tells you nothing at all about arrow performance in tissues, and is a useless exercise. Two years ago a team of European Forensic experts was assembled to try and find a test medium that would duplicate the effects of human arrow wounds. After months of trying, they found none.

The big difference comes with the bones. They aren't there merely to support the body, but also to protect it from impact and penetration. Mother Nature designed the skeletal system to deflect and redirect impact forces. Few bones are flat. They are domes, arches, spheres and cylinders, with most having surfaces simultaneously curving in several directions at once. On any shot that hits bone, it's highly unlikely that the impact will be perpendicular to the bone's surface. Mainly because of this, I've seen no test medium that gives results that correlates with those shown in tissues. Artificial mediums lack the infinitely complex, yet highly organized matrix of multidirectional force-deflecting surfaces that our hunting arrows must contend with. Even a tiny deviation in impact angle changes the entire force redistribution vectors - and the shot's likely outcome. The only answers come from analysis of results from LOTS of shots into real, and very fresh, tissues; to see what can happen, under what circumstances it is likely to happen, and how often it really occurrs. Knowing these, you can stack the deck in your favor by using what works most frequenty throughout the cross-section of likely shot outcomes.

Ed

[James Wrenn]

A couple of tounge depressers and a water balloon will work fine to simulate a broadside whitetail.If you pop the balloon you are good to go.  

[Van/TX]

Gosh, I just love reading Dr. Ed's stuff    

4-fingers you just got an answer from the worlds leading authority on the subject with the click of a mouse.  That's pretty cool I think  :D  ...Van

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

James, you forgot to say that it needs to be a T-Rex size tounge depresser!    

Here's a Muzzy that a Georgia Whitetail doe stopped. Can give you the details on this one: 450 gr, arrow, 18 yards; 68 ft.-lbs. KE and .53 Slug-Ft./sec. Shot from tree stand, stopped ON spine, 3" penetration; non-lethal hit.

 


But this one ... no data. The broadhead was recovered from a small rifle-killed Georgia Whitetail spike. It hit hard enough to bend all the blades, but failed to penetrate the rib!

 

That balloon would'a been pretty safe from both!
   

Ed

[James Wrenn]

They must have some tough deer in Georgia.  

[Curtiss Cardinal]

Go to a live stock auction and buy a goat. A Nubian would be a good choice. Test your set up and then have a barbeque.  

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

C2, I've been know to do that very thing! I LOVE good BBQ!!!

Ed

[robk]

i am going to test out a 45 lb shakespear manitu this weekend on a ram of some sort in texas. i am going to use magnus 125gr stingers to try and take my first critter with a traditional bow. i know i can shoot consistantly out to 15 to 17 yards and hit a pie plate which i use a measure to hit the vitals on the animal. i will or should have pics after the weekend and maybe i can help out on what happens when you shoot a cut on impact head out to 15 or 16 yards and are able to make the whole thing work
story to follow i hope of success lol
rob k

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Yep, James, them Georgia deer are darned near as tough as the ones down Texas way. I was stationed in NC for four years and, come to think of it, those NC deer did seem easier to kill. You might be on to something there!      

Ed

[James Wrenn]

Yeah I am glad they are so easy to kill Ed.I like animals that you can just shoot in the side and they fall right down for you. ;)The NC/SC deer and hogs are real good like that.Must be that special table strain we have developed for bowhunting down here.  

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

         

Love it!

Ed