What makes a $800.00 bow better than a $200.00 bow?

[Papa Bull]

Originally posted by Lenny Stankowitz:
[QB] I remember my Mom telling me one time that for some reason, the people that trust the least seem to be the least trustworty.[QB]

PT Barnum called people who trusted the most "suckers".

Some people can be trusted and some people can't but I've never been able to make a correlation between how easily someone can get suckered into a game of three-card monty and how trustworthy they were or weren't.  A lot of really trustworthy guys just know better than to play.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by LBR:
Wow--this one has sure taken a side road.....

I just re-read the entire thing, and couldn't find where anyone said any bowyer should just give their work away, or that no bow should cost more than certain amount, or umpteen other "replies" to statements that were never made to begin with.

I hope the guy who originally started this thread was able to get some sort of viable answer to his question.  Guess the obvious answer is "depends on who you ask".

As far as the most recent comments go........

I'll start with this:  I'm not a bowyer, I never have been a bowyer, and I have no intentions of ever becoming a bowyer.  I have several years experience in tradtional archery, with hundreds of different bows, and I ask a lot of different bowyers a lot of different questions, so I'm not totally ignorant, but I realize there's a lot you can only learn with hands-on experience.

However, I can relate to making a product with my own hands, "custom" if you will.  I'm not saying strings are the same as bows, but business is business, and I've managed to stay in business for close to 10 years now.  I've survived a few attempts at cutting my throat, and things are now better than ever.  

I love to make strings, I'll never get rich making strings, but there's no way I could put as much time and money as I do into it without making a profit.  I have to eat and pay my bills like anyone else.  If it cost me to do it, at best I'd only make them for myself and close friends, and I'd have a "real" job on the side to pay bills.  However, I've learned to make them well enough and fast enough to at least make enough profit to keep the business viable.  Bill collectors could care less how much you love what you do--unless you have an alternative cash supply, you either make money or you go under.

I didn't invent flemish or endless strings, I just developed my own personal way of making them.  I don't care if someone copies it--heck, I was involved in making a DVD to show people exactly how I do mine!  The reason being is I know that as long as I treat my customers right, and put out a quality product, I will be in business.  

I know there's a lot of folks that make them, and some charge a lot less than I do (and some charge more). My sales have increased since releasing the DVD!  No idea just how that works, since there's now thousands more people who have step-by-step instructions on how to make them exactly like I do, without having to invest years and years, along with thousands of strings and hundreds of pounds of material, of trial and error to figure it out.  Obviously I'm not the least bit worried about someone copying my work and putting me out of business.

This next part isn't intended to step on any toes, but it probably will.  I agree with another poster that there are very few new innovations in this sport.  Materials may change and/or improve, but pretty much every bow on the market is in some way, shape, or form a copy of someone else's ideas.  A long time ago somebody figured out putting a backing on a wood bow improved it.  Then glass.  Then carbon.  Some folks have just figured out how to do it better, more efficiently, cheaper, or whatever.  

Everyone who's been in this sport for any amount of time is familiar with the BW limb coming off the belly side of the riser.  Ben Pearson had a model like that years and years ago.  I don't know if BW came up with the idea first, or Mr. Pearson, but BW took the idea and made it work.  As far as I know, Pearson Archery only had the one model like that, and I don't think it ever took off.  Samick can copy the look of a BW, but it will never be a BW, and folks that want a BW won't buy a Samick because of the looks.  Just like most of my customers don't come to me just because they want a string that looks similar to mine, they come to me because they want a string that I built.

Metal risers are nothing new.  They have come and gone (on this side of the sport anyway) and are obviously gaining popularity again.  If something looks like it's going to make money, somebody is going to copy it and take shorcuts if possible, or simply figure out a more efficient/cheaper/better way to make them.
 
It's not cool, especially if you are the one that spent your time and money getting the trend going, but that's the American way.  It's no secret, and certainly nothing new.  

If you can develop something that is truly innovative, the only thing to do to protect your investment is patent it, else you'll just have to be honored that someone liked your idea well enough to use it themself--"imitation is the highest form of flattery".  Then you will have to stay one step ahead of the competion, putting out a product that is better, offering better service, and/or sell it at a better price.  Again, the American way.  Nobody ever said it was fair.

Look at it from another POV.  Reckon how much time and money Mr. Earl Hoyt Jr. invested in the ILF system?  How many different companies now use that?  Does Mr. Hoyt get any royalties from his innovation?  

I have no idea who invented flemish or endless strings, but I'm glad I don't have to pay them royalties.  I simply have to take my own advice to stay ahead of the competition, or at least do enough business to remain viable.  If someone figures out how to do it better, cheaper, etc. and puts me out of business........oh well.  I'm sure I'd fuss and gripe, but what good will that do?

It happens to businesses all the time.  Business chains--whether it be Wal-Mart, Auto Zone, McDonalds, Bass Pro, etc. are prime examples.  Even in our own ranks, we have big trad stores that the smaller guys can hardley compete with.

Big stores, big money, dang hard to hang in there with them around.  However, there are still a lot of "little guys" that figured out how to stay in business, even flourish, with the big competition.  The little guys (myself included) just have to work harder, longer, better, etc. or move on.  Like I learned a long time ago, life ain't fair.  We can either fuss about it, or deal with it.

Chad

Allow me to offer a short reply to a long post...

 

[robtattoo]

The nearest I can get in this debate, is that over here we're very limited on what's available (if you forget about Border + 1 or 2 noteable excetions)
I got to experience nothing but $200 bows when I first got into Trad archery & I was happy enough with all of them & couldn't understand why someone would spend much more for a simple stick. Until I shot one. The difference was utterly, utterly amazing & I suddenly understood how & why folks could justify the extra cost. To me the whole shooting experience was changed, everything just felt 'better'
I think that the bottm line (for me at least) is that a bow is worth whatever you are willing to pay for your own happiness & satisfaction. If you are not prepared to pay out for a hig end bow, please, please don't try one. It may just change your mind!  :D

[joebuck]

I think a bowyer charging $800 for a bow that tips lean from side to side is fooling himself about his craft level. Even  if the bow is constructed out of furniture grade Snakewood. I see very often $200 bows built more soundly over $800.

[sticshooter]

My dad always said it's worth what ever you get for it. I love $800.000 bows. But only when I can get them used!    <><