What makes a $800.00 bow better than a $200.00 bow?

[Dan Bonner]

There is a world of difference in a Bear or Martin that you may find at  Cabelas for $300-$600 and a top of the line custom bow from a good bowyer. Ive built enough bows to understand(Shapeshifter can also testify to this) that these production line bows which typically consist of two thick (.050-.070") pieces of black glass, one or two paralells of maple actionwood for a core and a piece of engineered laminated wood for a handle and thats it. I could build a bow like this in 6-8 hours from ,scratch. Now I prefer to build three piece bows with 7-8 limb lams that I cut and grind to +- .005" of my target thickness including expensive carbon lams, decorative veneers, flaired two wood risers, accent stripes, exotic hardwoods, multiple butt, tip, belly and back handle overlays, snake skins, custom fit grips ect. I have blown up several sets of limbs figuring out a design that works and built and rebuilt several forms. It takes about 30 hrs for me to complete a bow like described. It will out perform most production bows, is quiet, and pleasant to shoot but I do it for fun and to give them to my friends. If I were to sell one for $800 thats less $200 bucks materials it equates $20/hour labor less development time and testing costs. Now the lower cost production bows say would sell for $400 less $70 materials devided by six hours equals $55 per hour. I understand how Bob Morrison gets $1200 for a bow and sells a few each day as do many other top end bowyers. They are not getting rich, in fact it is a tough way to make a living but the products are night and day diferent from production bows. Performance wise the production models are near bullet proof but the materials are not being pushed to the "envelope" which will make them very reliable but they will never perform like an Adcock or Border or Black Swan ect. When a bowyer develops a better performing bow there are lots of costs they have to overcome, the same goes for a prettier bow. You get what you pay for but I dont think there is any "gouging" going in traditional bow sales. The good thing is there is a model that will suit any taste/ pocket book and they keep improving.

[Bjorn]

Definitely don't buy a bow you can't shoot for a week. "New bow syndrome" takes a few days to clear and you need to take the time to make sure this is gonna be good for you in the long run. It will be harder to justify bow number two, with a bad number 1 still around the house. But get started now--'cause bow number 22 is far easier to justify.  

[northern fisher]

For what it is worth I have a few bows and my go to bow is still an old Damon Howett recurve 55@ 28".That bow is like a part of my body.I just look at what I want hit and it happens.No thinking on my part.

[E. Texas HillBilly]

Truly?? Whether or not you can afford one...I have both. If I don't practice I suck with both, if I practice I can shoot either just as well. I shot 150.00, 85# longbow for 10 years. Now I shoot a Howard Hill and will probably never hunt with anything else. I'll be honest when I tell you the Hill is great, but it is not any smoother than my ol' cheap date. Ya just gotta dance with the one that brung ya'.
                                   -Hillbilly

[E. Texas HillBilly]

I must add that I killed lots and lots of game with a bright red fiberglass bow with a white rubber handle that I bought from my cousin for a dollar when I was 5... I shot that bow until I was like 13. The finest investment I ever made.
                      -Hillbilly

[Bob Morrison]

$800 bow price
$200 Material
$ 80 Fed Excise Tax
$ 15 Liability Insurance
These are the hard costs you can see. Leaving us with $505.00 Now how about some sand paper and finish to put on this bow? Lets just leave it as materials. $505 / 30 hrs is $16.80
You can break down all the other stuff.
Electric. For All of your sanders, saws, lights, heating, cooling. Not Free
Work shop or garage. Not Free
Insurance on the building. Not Free

Limbs miss weight 12# That will be another
$100 Material + Labor + all the other stuff again.

They also quit giving away power equipment, They are no longer Free. That will probably come out of my $16/ hr.

[Otto]

Bob

Kinda like the ole farmer who won $1M in the lottery.  A TV reporter asked him what he was going to do now that he'd just won a million bucks.  The ole farmer answered;

"Reckon I'll just keep farming till it's gone."

Geeez...  Some of you guys act like custom bows oughta be given away or something.  I ain't got talent enough to carve a toothpick out of an osage twig.  But I've got sense enough to recognize that the high end custom bows out there cost what they do for a reason.  And I'll gladly pay it because they provide what I don't have the skills to build on my own.  I think Bob Morrison laid it out pretty well in his post.  Even the best custom bowyers out there are workin dirt cheap on the hour.

[Jason Lester]

I just made my first set of cedar arrows. They turned out pretty good but didn't save me much over having them built. (more if you count the jigs etc) Break it down and the arrow builders aren't making much per set.

I know with bows it can't be much different. I think the biggest issue is the design. Some bows are designed better. (more efficient) Obviously wood choices make a difference in prices.

Now some manufacturers make many bows exactly the same so they can buy in bulk and mass produce a close to identical bow for less. Bear bows are an example Fred Bear pioneered this in the early days of Bear Archery. Can't complain with bear bows durablity and shootability. But its just not a custom bow.

If your getting started I would recommned getting something used acually. This will get you started and give you time to shoot some other bows and decide what you like.

[arraflipper]

I think Bob put it just about the way it is, I love to build bows but have to work at another job to afford to build bows to sell.  You aren't getting rich building bows, I can make twice as much doing construction work.  You have to enjoy building a bow and putting a part of yourself into each one, then selling it to keep the door open, or you wouldn't continue to do it.

The way I see it life is to short to shoot an ugly bow!!

[DAS Kinetic]

Bob,  Yep, sometimes I wonder why we get up and put on our boots on in the morning.

     Here are some possible alternative sports for those who find archery equipment way too expensive:

Marbles
Jacks
Jumprope
hacky sack
frisbee
and of course Yo-yos

All excellent alternatives to over priced archery equipment.  Count on an extra string for those yo-yos every now and then though.  It's a rip off for sure, but the yo-yos won't work worth a darn with a busted string.  I'd suggest learning to make your own from woven cob webs or maybe dryer lint.

     :rolleyes:      

   Sorry,...I've been in the shop since 6am (14 1/2 hours)working my minimum wage archery job and my attitude is not what it could be.

David

[Luckyned]

You put your boots on cause you darn well know you make something that can't be mass-produced AND you prolly won't have a lead paint recall!

[Arrow Slinga]

I'm with Bob!
You are paying for the bowyers time and craftsmenship plus expenses. I have two of Bob's customs and have not thought twice about feeling overcharged for the bows they are very fine built bows. Do customs make you a better shot?? Not anymore than having a bow make someone a bowhunter.

[Wary Buck]

I should've added to my economics lesson a personal aside:

I don't know how any traditional bowmaker makes a real living doing it.  The time and effort and craftsmanship involved are extensive.  So while there may be a 'Giffen Good' effect when prices go up, that's not to say that the bowyer's time is not worth that much...especially given what we pay people of many other professions who may have far less talent...

[dakota tim]

Bob-

I think you're being too generous with your figures.  If you sat down & really got serious you're probably making a lot less than 16 bucks an hour!

You get what you pay for.  If you're paying $200 for a new bow it's probably mass produced in Korea.  I talked to a buddy that just got home from chasing speed goats with his Impalla recurve.  He bought it new for right about $200.  If he has a question or problem, who does he talk to?  Does he call someone in Korea?  I had a question about my Cougar & called Bob.  It was during hunting season & he acted like he'd talk all day if I needed to.  That's what makes a bow worth $800 to me.

[Doc Nock]

I've watched a few good bowyers in their shops building bows.  I flat out left when they started grinding fiberglass...ain't nuff money in the world to do that...especially day in and out.

Dakota...you're right about Bob's estimates..if he counted the hours he spent on his butt driving to shoots all over kingdom come, booth fees, gas, food, etc... that has to cost a pretty penny as advertising goes... then there is the time spent haglin with customers and answering a myriad of questions on phone and email. I know...bob and others have done it for me. (thanks guys!)

Reality differs as stated. I liked the comments earlier on about "production bows w/ options".  

All the freakin hand work some of our bowyer sponsors put in is horrendously high!!  Others use CNC to crank out risers.. nothing wrong with either approach....but I LIKE handbuilt stuff!

Bob's built me a sweet bow. He knows, I don't value all sorts of stuff on my bow... contrasting stripes etc...love to look at it, but I'd rather have a sweet burly piece of grained wood riser...now that is BEAUTIFUL to me...and he delivered.

Same as folk's furniture in the house. Wallpaper, wardrobe. What we drive. We pay to suit our tastes.

As for performance: I did find that the less expensive bows ended up being less forgiving and more "shocky" to my hand and shooting form...so I didn't buy them. And yet, guy named Peckerwood had this multi-colored short recurve at B-more the other year that was as sweet a drawing and shooting bow I ever shot! He's a fine carpenter and furniture builder so he loves workign w/ wood and it shows... but he's not a full time bowyer...but that ONE I shot was SWEET! Go figure!

I had great advice from others...borrowed a ole Bear from a buddy and shot it to get started and then shot and shot and shot bows at many, many shoots and any shop that had em, till I was sick of it... wrote down names of bows I liked most and shot then again the next year...then started making a few purchases...

Over time, as my form settled in and arthritis took over, some desires changed and I've changed bows here and there... mostly looking for a freakin grip that fit! That's my cranky self. Shot mag handguns for too many years so I believe hand fit in grip is critical to consistent shooting.  

Guys who will build to fit my paw..get my order. And then sometimes, some custom guys just want to build stuff THEIR way and no matter what you say, you get something different than ordered.

That is why there is a lot of bows for sale used... that and some folks just LIKE trying new stuff. And we who've bought them used bows say "THANKS!"      

Buy what you can afford. What's that saying?"Be wary of the man with one gun (bow) for he likely shoots it well."    

But keep exploring w/ an open mind. Refinements do show up as costs go up, depending on your needs and wants.

[HARL]

Personally I have not found 1 of these 300-600 dollar bows that has been able to compare performance to any of the Morrison bows I have shot.There is a difference !!!!!

[JohnV]

I don't know of any new bows that sell for $200 that are worth a darn, unless you are talking about a kid's or beginner bow.  Production bows by companies like Bear and Martin start at $400+.  The only decent performing bow you are going to find for $300 or less is a USED bow.

[redfish]

Fine finishes (translated as "time") and fine woods cost money. Other factors like design, knowledge, reliability, customer service, etc. also require dollars and differentiate the bows. When you figure out what you, really, really need (want)in a bow, the price is of relatively little consequence when you look at the use you will get from it.
If the bow doesn't fit you or your needs, whatever you paid is wasted. If it meets all of your needs and "fits" YOU, then it will be worth whatever price you pay.

[dorris]

Originally posted by HARL:
Personally I have not found 1 of these 300-600 dollar bows that has been able to compare performance to any of the Morrison bows I have shot.There is a difference !!!!!

shoot one of voodoofire1's bows and you'll probably change your mind . in all honesty !

[Brandon Stahl]