Lets talk funnels and pinch points and how they can put a whitetail in your lap.

[adkmountainken]

i agree %100 with  Knawbone, a "pinch point" is a very specific location sometimes with in the funnel itself other times just a certain piece of land with a very slight change in height, steepness or obstruction. i hunt a great funnel on the mountain and put my trail cam in the pinch point of that funnel.

[Knawbone]

Iv' shot quite a few Does over the years, mainly because they needed to reduced in numbers. But my real passion for hunting is Bucks and especially mature Bucks. Without getting too far off subject here, I'll tell you my reason for the prelude: Not all bucks think alike. And I do mean THINK. Some Bucks can be as dumb( or nieve)as a box of rocks while others are downright smart( for a dear).I have seen first hand mature Bucks escape death by thinking out of the box, and doing exactly the opposite of what any ordinary Buck would do. ( for lack of a better term)  Deer are like dogs, in that they all have( generally) a different personality.
 Because of their differing personalities some are patternable and some are not, or so it would seem.Some are lazy and some are not. Some are extremely shy and passive, and some are not. You get the Idea. But what does this have to do with funnels you ask?
  Don't always assume a mature Buck will use a funnel in the same way as the rest of the Deer use it. Where as a Doe may travel threw in a predetermined spot or area, big boy may have other ideas. He never go's threw the same exact spot or trail and may go threw the middle of a field instead of that swath of brush or trees like the rest of his cronies. Always varying where and how he go's threw an area ( we're talking daytime movement here) He may go exactly the same trail every time, because that trail go's right threw the thickest nastiest place from place A to B.So thick and nasty that it's impossible to hunt it and get a shot. Some Bucks will create their own set trail to food or Doe holding areas,and will continue to use them until precieved danger changes their course. ( these are the Bucks I usually end up targeting )
 I'm rambling again, but just some things to think about, for the young in the great sport of hunting with the stick and string.Funnels are a vast study in and of themselves as well as the Deer that use or even create them.

[Barry Wensel]

I really don't have the time right now to really get into this but I'm pleased to see how some of you guys are thinking. There are so many variables to consider. That's one of the reasons it's so much fun. The fact remains one of the most consistent things you can count on when dealing with whitetails is how they use the terrain. When I do my whitetail bootcamps in the spring one of the most common comments I get is how I focus on a structural feature then manipulate that structure to shift deer movement from maybe 25 yds. to under fifteen yards. It's not cheating, it's just common sense or smart hunting. Another very common mistake a lot of guys make is not looking at a big enough picture. They might be in the ballpark but most tend to only consider as far as they can see. I always try to point out you need to consider what's over the horizon. In other words if you are able to see say fifty yards in the timber to the horizon you need to top out and walk the timber om the other side to see if there's some structural deviation that will make a certain spot better than one that "appears" the same but might be only seventy yards (or whatever) away. If, for example there is a density, an edge, a stone wall or a beaver pond over the horizon you need to know about it and add it to the pieces of the puzzle. That fact alone will very possibly double your chances for success. Not only will this intense scouting build your confidence because you know you're in the right place, but it will also increase your self satisfaction when the big boy does exactly what you knew he would do. It wasn't just luck. And the best part is you'll be able to now adapt your new knowledge and utilize it for the rest of your life. Let me also say this is a great opportunity to spend time with the youngsters in a learning/teaching situation. Not only will you be handing down your knowledge but you'll have another opinion (their's) to maybe consider. You'll often find you just might learn something when considering their maybe more simple views. Good thread. Thanks. BW

[Knawbone]

Everyone should be attentive when a Wensel chimes in. Thanks for your input and advise Barry, not just for the young, but the seasoned hunter as well. Your thoughts and knowledge are always appreciated and respected,Please chime in again.

[LB_hntr]

Im a firm believer in creating pinch points as well. Dont be afraid to use dead material laying around to close off trails and channel deer to other trails. or create funnels by making one trail or travel route better than another. like using a weed wacker to cut a skinny trail thru a high grass or crp area. using dead stuff to block water crossings and sway deer to cross at your crossing. The list goes on and on but when you scout in the offseason and finde spots that need a little adjustment in your favor that is the time to get creative. I actually shot a big doe 2 years ago on a stretch of a stream that had 2 major crossings 75 yards apart both spots on shallow flats with low banks. I took my tee shirt off and hung it at the upwind crossing and then walked in the water downwind to the other crossing and hunted. the only deer i was that night was a big lone doe that wanted to cross where my shirt was. when she caught wind of it she worked her way down wind to my crossing and bumped into a magnus before taking a long nap. so dont be afraid to fine tune bigger funnels into smaller ones or create them where you need them.

[The Night Stalker]

Several things I discussed came out of Barry's play book. The fence and the brush ideas. I have stands set aside to be hunted during the magically peak of the rut.  I  have walked after the season and gives me insight of why and where they travel across my property. You can take it one step further by planting cover, hinge cut, bush hog, etc. build it and they will come.

[awbowman]

I have a place where two sloughs parallel themselves with a small ditch connecting them for drainage.  That ditch bank is a major deer highway.  On each side there are cutovers which provide bedding and a ridge in between that provides feed trees.  They follow the ditch to get to the feed instead of walking through the open slough.  It's a good place to fill the freezer but no big ones yet.

Also there is an island on the west side of one of the sloughs.   To the east of the island is a little finger that extends into the slough which makes it only a 30 yard crossing from the island.  Loaded with tracks back and forth (lots of night movement I think).  That island has as many hookings and scrapes during the rut than any area on the lease.  Only  problem is getting to the island or the finger undetected is fruitless..... and the deer know it.  Oh we could "nudge" them off the island with a little push and a stander in the finger but that wouldn't do the brutes on the island justice, so we get HIGH across the slough and keep trying to catch him in the finger.  All I need is for him to come back to his island a little late in the morning after running a doe for just a few to many minutes.  Then I'll feel I earned him a little more.

[Knawbone]

Speaking of fingers, don't pass up wooded points that jet out into fields. Especially corn and crop fields or overgrown fields used as travel corridors.These transitional areas draw Deer like a magnet. I miss the days I hunted farm land with it's mix of wood lots and fields, but the big woods where I hunt now are a challenge I enjoy.

[wapiti792]

Like Uncle Barry mentioned (and others) manipulation of the terrain is a good thing! As I recall on the great whitetail he killed a year ago he cut a small tree to "close off" a trail farther away from him to force the deer to a closer trail. I don't think it worked out as planned but he killed a monster nonetheless.

I think sometimes we don't do things like that enough. I use a deep ditch on a few of my sets and put my back to it with the wind in my face that blows to the ditch. On 3 of these sets I have hinged trees to create my own funnel. I have been amazed at how the deer seemed to take to this giving me a shot under 20 instead of being out of range.

I also like to use two "blockades" and hunt between. My favorite setup is a pinch between a pond and a ditch, north and south, with food east and bedding cover west. One tree has been responsible for 6 mature bucks in 12 years. I'd take that set over any other from Nov thru Dec with a south wind.

[Wolfshead]

This is a great thread!
I need more of these type threads as I am just starting out.

Barry, I hope you find more time, as I would like for you to add more to this.

Would love to know more about this. The whys and how's of pinch points.
Would love to see and hear more explanations of them.
What do you look for as a possible pinch point?
You are scouting out an area that is new to you, what is it you are looking to find that may be a pinch point?
What would cause you to move brush so that you could develop them?
These are some of the questions I have.
I will be hunting mostly public land in big woods with no crop fields or farm land around.
Sorry I don't have anything to add as I just don't have the experience yet and you guys are my mentors so to speak so I am relying on you.
Thanks in advance

[Pokerdaddy]

Fantastic thread!  I've often thought of starting a similar thread looking for input, but from a different perspective.

 My main property is a standard 80 acre rectangle, 1/4 mile by 1/2 mile.  All wooded, the front 20 was farmed 50 years ago and has since grown thick (read bedding).  The back 60 is predominately hardwoods with small thick bedding pockets.  

The property is noticeably devoid of topographical variation or waterways.  Game trails are EVERYWHERE and I have a very hard time patterning these deer.  

While the front 20 is littered with bedded deer, I have two problems here:  one, I have to enter the property through this 20 acres, and have to travel through prime bedding to get to the rest of the property, and two, 20 acres is a BIG minefield to traverse, especially when the "mines" have eyes.  One good thing is I have clear, established trails to walk and can keep my noise level and unnecessary movement low.

Simply put:  I have a very hard time patterning these deer!  The property can and does get entered/exited by deer over a roughly 300 degree arc.  I may have to create some funnels where natural ones aren't present.  I'm comfortable moving dead material, but that's about it.

Thanks for all the great food for thought!

[LB_hntr]

Wolfshead, Great questions and i too hunt the same situations as you. I would highly recommend buying the books writen by the Wensels. I have som many "how to hunt" books that i could open a used book store. But the ones that you will learn the most from will be books writen by the Wensels. They will anser every questions you ask adn give you sound common sense advise that you can use regardless of your huting situations. I understand how dificult huting big woods is. But you will soon se the beauty and the benifit from it. When you learn to hunt in the big woods. You learn to identify the subtle funnels and pichpoints. You will become great a turning a huge tract of land into huntable peices in your mind. 90% of the deer use 10% of the land. As Gene said in one of his books your job is to pick the one tree that most deer walk by the most often (might not be his exact words but that was how i remember the lesson). Once you can hunt well in the big woods every other type of hunting situation will seem very easy as the topography is so much easier and makes a bolder statement.

[The Night Stalker]

Mike, that set up sounds deadly. Water is great used the right way with your scent.
Pokerdaddy, I would create a visual barrier trail so you could access your back property. I would do this by hinge cutting or if it was open, plant Egyptian wheat. The other things I do is rake leaves with my tractor rock rake or by hand. Some guys use a leaf blower.  The deer will stay bedded as long as they do not see you and they have secure cover.

[awbowman]

PokerDaddy,  cut a trail on the perimeter of the land and stay out of the bedding area.  Use the brush to pile up on bedding side of trail.

[Barry Wensel]

Thanks for all the nice comments above. I appreciate that. You'll notice one thing that jumps out regarding any "secret" techniques listed above, no matter what part of the country you live in or who you are, the fact remains time spent in the woods is your best bet for personal knowledge, understanding and woodsmanship skills. I absolutely don't intend for this to be a sales pitch for my annual whitetail bootcamps or persoanl preaching but it's a hard fact most folks can/will read theories, watch the videos or go to the lectures all well and good, but the truth is when someone takes you by the hand and points out the practical applications in the timber, the subtle differences of how a foot of elevation change will shift deer movement, light intensities or vegetation densities, etc., that's when it'll sink in and you'll really truly learn. And that knowledge will open the door to future opportunities and force you to think more about what you're seeing. I can't impress on people how much time spent in the woods with an open mind and some common sense is THE secret to hunting success. Find yourself a good, honest, dependable hunting partner and share the woodsmanship knowledge. Two heads are better than one. You'll both build confidence as well as knowledge. Then as you get older hand that earned knowledge down to the next generation to enjoy. Best of luck. bw

[awbowman]

Barry's comment reminded me of a crossing my buddy found in a flooded swamp.  He never saw anything but does cross there, but it was a meat stand for sure.  It turned out that the deer were  leaving a bedding area being pushed by hunters coming in from the north.  Never understood exactly why they used that  particular spot until we visited the site in July ( We'd never gone there at that time of the year). Turned out for some reason the ground there was about 8" higher than the surrounding land (water on both sides and the first land to show itself in the dry).  The deer chose this spot to cross during the "drying" stage of the swamp, but continued using in when the water was up.

[Keb]

I found a great one this weekend basically a blown down big hardwood in a cedar thicket on a hillside, forces the deer thru a 15 yard gap.

I try to find the ones not so visible on a map, I hunt public land, and if I can see it so can everyone else.

I have also noticed pressured mature deer will often skirt the hard tight funnel, even if me means exposing the selfs in the open, thy can sense it getting tight, especially if they are homebody deer.

Deer coming from 3 miles away may not react the same.

[Keb]

I also find this to be even more common in wood lot and ditch country, with out lots of big cover. The big deer won't use the creek much during daylight, so ur creek crossing, u bend in the creek type stuff is not as productive. They would rather cruise the down wind side in the open. This is even more true in states without a gun season in the rut.

This is coming from public or pressured private I have hunted.

[Keb]

One more, this brought back a hunt 3 years ago on public land in western ks, I scouted a finger of brush about 3/4 mile of the main creek bottom.

It was up in the cow pasture had few hardwood trees 3 or 4 rest was cedars.

It was maybe 35 or 40 yards wide raneast/west, perfect, saw big tracks, and plenty of doe trafiic.

Cut me a whole in a cedar tree, got a towering 6 feet off the ground. Does tricked down the ditch till about 10am, there was crops 3/4 mile away to the west.

At 1030 am I heard a loud grunt a doe pops out, and so does a 150 8 point 22 inches wide. She walks by, he stops and never would come out of this group of cedars, maybe 10 or 15 of them 7 to 8 feet tall. He went back in the there walked around all day, layed down, I could she his feet, he was about 30 yards away. All afternoon little bucks would walk up and down this finger get in the cedars and come flying out, he would run them off. I sat there till dark, he never would come out.

Long story short, I had a cedar tree on each side of the ditch, the wind would change I would get in the other. I hunted this buck for 4 days, at 830 am u could about set ur watch to italmost he would come running from the wide open from a different direction every am and would check does as they came down the finger from this patch of cedars.

I knew it was a matter of time, but never could get him to come out. The only time he did come out the windwas blowing 30 to 40 miles per hour.

Other hunters invalided the area and the jig was over, but very interesting.

[Knawbone]

Icon 1 posted September 02, 2013 05:22 PM      Profile for Keb   Email Keb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote  I found a great one this weekend basically a blown down big hardwood in a cedar thicket on a hillside, forces the deer thru a 15 yard gap.
Quote:
I try to find the ones not so visible on a map, I hunt public land, and if I can see it so can everyone else.

I have also noticed pressured mature deer will often skirt the hard tight funnel, even if me means exposing the selfs in the open, thy can sense it getting tight, especially if they are homebody deer.

Very true, especially Bucks that have survived a season or two! (or three, or four ,or five.)