Help getting FOC up for a #51 longbow

[Kaninmaskwa]

Okay I just can't seem to get my aluminum arrows to fly right.
I have bought a Big Jim buffalo 51#@28" which is what I draw.
I would like to be able to shoot 315gr broadheads. But am worried by the time I match shafts inserts etc I'm going to have an arrow very very slow and would have passed diminishing returns with the extra weight. Maybe I'm wrong.
I was kind of aiming for the 650gr mark or close to then concentrate on using razor sharp 3:1 single bevel tango tipped 25 dergree edges broadheads.
These sorts of broadheads all come in at around 315 grains or so. But I have no idea what shafts to look at since this is off the shaft selection charts.
I don't mind getting a few different shafts to experiment with but I want to make sure whatever broadhead set up I go with I can match it with field points so that I can practice on standard targets.
I think I will go carbon ideally wood grain looking. Feather fletched possibly taper shaft if the weight is not too heavy. And no idea what the best combination for mating the broadheads to shaft will be without getting to heavy but it must be extremely reliable.
Or do I have to settle on less than stellar broadheads that are lighter?
At even 600gr I believe,  that for my targeted game this would be sufficient but if I can retain enough speed with 650gr or so than that would be better.
I'd like to be reliable out to 20yards with the set up.
Suggestions on shafts inserts broadhead combinations would be appreciated.
I need to get close enough to tune from with slight shaft length changes and insert weight change.

Woah I e other quick question.
When tuning carbon shafts with a #50 or now how many grains of point weight does it take to inflict a noticeable  difference?

Thanks you

[-snypershot317-]

this may help, and i got the idea from another tradganer, but i too was having issues tuning my arrows. i currently shoot a 55# recurve and my arrows are 575-600gr (depending on what head i shoot) and its still pretty quick and accurate. but i needed to up the weight and foc so i took a 16d nail and cut off the head and wrapped in masking tape till the fit was tight and shoved into the arrow. and got amazing foc. i shoot footed carbons this way with 100-125gr broad head cause heavier ones are kinda hard/expensive to find here...the specifics on shaft are a beman bowhunter or easton powerflight 400 8.4 grn/inch (same exact shaft just different names  :p  )and as far as reliability, ive been shooting these for years even in a 60# compound and have had no issues  :D  (even bounced em off rocks and walls    ) hope this helps..
Jesse

[-snypershot317-]

here is the link to the mentioned post...

 http://tradgang.com/rob/foc/

[katman]

Gold tip ultralights 300 spine with 250 point make either 600gr(50gr brass insert) or 650gr(100gr insert) arrow. Start full length and you should be able to get them to tune. I shoot them with [email protected].

I have been wanting to try these, light gpi, tapered, and skinny;  http://www.nitrostinger.com/store/store_product_detail.cfm?Product_ID=14

Regarding point weight change, with the above gold tips 50gr will move the bareshaft about 3" at 25yds for me.

Good, luck to you.

[L82HUNT]

Last year I was shooting same weight longbow as you in the early season. I shot a easton axis FMJ 400 spine with a 300 grain head.  29" long.  1" footing of 2018.    Total weight was 654.

[threeunder]

Take a look at the Victory V-Force HV arrows.  I began messing with these about 6 months ago.  Easy to get high FOC with this arrow.

[JimB]

What is your draw length?

The type broadheads you describe are available from 190 grs to 300 grs as glue ins.From there you can adjust the weight with aluminum,titanium or steel adapters,so the combinations give you a lot of different point weights to choose from.Couple that with aluminum inserts about 15 grs or brass 50 and 100 grs and total front end weight is almost limitless.

Regarding field points,the same goes.You can come up with any custom weight you want by combining glue on points with adapters.You can further fine tune the weights by adding a few lead shot inside the adapter or point ferrule.If you are worried about glueing the points on the adapters,aligning etc,that is simple too,if you want it to be.

If you want to keep arrows down to close to 650 grs,forget wood grain.That adds 30 grs or so.My bows are cut to center and 50-53 3's.I can make a 650 gr arrow by using Victory V Force HV .350's,30" long,100 gr insert and 325 gr point,FOC 32%.That shaft is 6.7 GPI.Anything heavier and you won't hit be able to keep it down to 650 grs.

A 30" Gold Tip 7595 with a 100 gr insert and 300 gr point/adapter makes about a 700 gr arrow,27% FOC.Coincidentally,I can shoot these two different weight arrows side by side and without thinking about it,they hit at the same point of impact out to 25 yds.The weight difference doesn't make a noticeable difference.

If you bow center cut is different,you will get slightly different results.

[maineac]

I have been shooting the beeman ics bowhuner .500, 29.25", 3 4" feathers.  With 250 gr. up front (glue on bh and appropriate weight steel adapters) arrow comes in at a little over 540 gr. Using the standard inserts that come with tghe arrow.

[Gdpolk]

I'm shooting a 50lb bow, 53lbs at my 29 draw length with 5575 Gold Tips that fly like darts and come in at 574 grains with 21.2% FOC.

I'm using 100 grain inserts, 125 grain points, JB Weld epoxy, and aluminum shaft footings.  When it's all said and done, I've got right around 250 grains up front.

This batch of arrows drop quicker at ranges beyond 35 yards or so than some of my older, lighter batches of arrows but within that 35 yards they don't seem any slower.  Out at 35 yards, they may drop 2-3" more than a lighter arrow from the same bow; which you would get that little difference by having 2-3lbs lighter draw weight too.  So even still they are moving at good hunting speeds, yet carry the benefit of a higher FOC mass and higher mass to the target.

[Shawn Leonard]

I would think a 300 spine carbon would get ya darn close or even a full metal jacket dangerous game shaft will get you there.(15.5 GPI) Start long and trim until you get the flight you want. 30" shaft and 315 grain broadhead will get ya quite a bit over 700 grains. Keep the shots 25 yards and in and I don't think trajectory will be that much of an issue! Shawn

[Wallis Wetzel]

I just played with some numbers on the 3Rivers spine calculator that I've been using lately.  If you went with GoldTip Traditionals in the 75/95 size, cut to 30", with the included 14 grain inserts and a 300 grain head, it came out almost exact.  This was entering your bow as a pre-2011 Bear Grizzly, 50#@28", with you drawing 28".  I use a 300-grain two-blade, single bevel, 3-1 ratio screw-in, sold by 3Rivers for about $64/3.  Hope this helps.  Oh, this was 22.7 FOC, and just over 659 grains with the installed 4" feathers.

[Friend]

Specs are likely in the ball park and this arrow would be quite lethal

Shaft – Victory VForce HV 350
Length – 29.25"s
Insert – 100 gn
Point –  315 gn
Total Wt. – 631 gn
FOC - ~32% Ultra-EFOC

[Kaninmaskwa]

Thanks so far. Okay so I'm hearing that I could shoot a footed 400 spine down to 300. More have said around that 300-350 with about 300gr up front.

I've looked at some of the arrows mentioned and most are still around 9.7+ gpi at the 300 size and some if the numbers given on the shafts seem to be for their lightest arrows of lighter spine.
The Vforce 350 is 8.9gpi and 300 is 9.8 the stinger gold though is 9gpi on a 300 spine.

I wish I new for sure what spine to hone in on.

Seems like I need to come in at around 9gpi or slightly less on the shaft to make the target weight. If I want to use a brass insert which I do. If I target around 625gr with 50gr insert and a target of around 315 point, shaft of 9gpi or less seems like I'll be in the ballpark and a 30" shaft should give me room to tune. I can add a 75gr insert plus fletch etc. Or trim and keep the 50
Would an " of shaft and 25gr up down be enough adjustment to get them flying perfectly assuming I was using the right spine?

But that's the thing I'm still not sure if with my bow and 315gr point plus 50-75gr insert @30" length  I should be looking at 350 or 300 spine? Would you all say 400 would be too weak?
And if its 300 what are the most durable reliable 300 at 9gpi?
If I can shoot 350 it seems like there are a lot more options....

As far as points 315gr is common and seems an easy figure to get and there's matched field points too. Plus it's really getting that FOC up.
Thanks I really appreciate everybodies input

[Fanto]

Gday

I shoot the 7595s with 320 up front from a couple of bows they are a tiny bit stiff from my new caribow slynx which is cut to centre, and 59@28. the arrows are 30". i will need to add weight to these so they will end up 750 or 800 grain. (stiff based on bareshaft tuning)

I would reccomend you go for Gold tip expedition hunters in black which are a 340 spine and nice and light. you will need to leave them long. I would start at 32"/
 You may even get a 5575 to work well down at 29 inches long.

these carbons dont seem to fly real well if they are too stiff.

[Friend]

Revised my earlier post...

[Kaninmaskwa]

Okay Ive been freed from my thinking. I was looking at the Ashby broadheads and the Tuffheads. But when I looked at the Tuffheads all I could see was an adapter at 75gr and 225gr head combination that was close and with insert would always put me closer to 700gr arrow unless the shaft was 9gpi or less.

But here's the thing. Duh for one I found the adapter insert combinations that will drop me 75gr and open up a lot more options.
For two I started using the 3 rivers arrow calculator, they even list my Big Jim Buffalo bow. That's good but oh my god I had no idea how much moving my arrow plate out can make in changing the spine. I mean I new it did but the calculator changes my bow from a dynamic spine of 62 by building out a 1/8" put it down to 46! With a for example Beman Bowhunter 340 @ 29" a 75gr adapter and 300gr point, its theoretically spot on (I have not factored in personal form or brace height changes).

Arrow weight is 657 and 27% FOC.
I'm sure I had the calculator near balanced on a Dynamic tapered shaft with even higher FOC but now I can't seem to find the shaft in the selection?

So another question for me is in the real world how accurate is this calculator?
If I build my plate out so I can shoot a softer spine how much should I build out? Is 1/4" too much? Shooting a EFOC or UEFOC at 50# and say 170FPS does it matter how soft the spine is if its matched? I assume at some point excessive paradoxing with a softer spine and more off center shot now means longer recovery. Does anyone know where the balance is? Would 400 or softer spine take too long to recover?

One last question in my research I remember there was bone threshold at 650gr but that there was also a Efoc % that once crossed significantly improved penetration. I can't seem to find that tho. Memory is telling me like 23% or was it a lot higher?

Oh so many questions I have........ I think I'm making such a big deal because I don't believe Ive ever had properly tuned arrows in my life. Just close and then I've compensated. That's not good enough for me anymore now that I know better.

Thanks everyone