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Author Topic: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young  (Read 655 times)

Offline Hummer3T

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Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« on: September 04, 2013, 01:26:00 PM »
I was reading several threads and read a comment regarding P and Y and Lighted nocks several times.

I guess I'm dumb, but I just cant figure this out for myself. What is the advantage to lighted nocks and why won't Pope and young allow animals taken with then to be entered.

I have only used lighted nocks a couple times, but not in hunting situations.  I can't see any advantage except for after the shot, RE: seeing where your shot hit and finding your arrow.  You have already taken the shot so where is the advantage! Arrows can not be shot like tracer bullets, or at least, I can't shoot that fast.

Just pondering, sorry for the rant, just don't understand them allowing all the compound gear, but not these.
Life is about learning from your mistakes!

Chek-mate hunter I 62" riser with 60" limbs 49&42lbs@28

Samick Sage 62" 50lbs@28

Big Jim Mountain Monarch Recurve  60 inch / 50 lbs @ 28

Offline two4hooking

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 01:32:00 PM »
It is like a gateway drug LOL!

Keeping all electronics out of the bow arrow combo is simpler and those nocks while cool are certainly not needed.

Offline Tony Z

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 03:24:00 PM »
I agree Hummer. Where's the advantage ? If it helps a hunter see his shot in low light or find his arrow what's the problem ? No disrespect to P&Y but I leave my tape measure in the tool box. I don't need to measure antlers to figure out whether or not I've killed a trophy. TonyZ.

Offline Hummer3T

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 03:43:00 PM »
Well then, P and Y should go back to only supporting traditional hunting, no range finders, no flashlights to recover game, etc........  I am fine with this, I wish some organizations would stick to their morals. It seems P and Y allow allot of technology.  

I guess it is the little battery in the device causing the issue!  

I always wanted to try one of those traditional lighted nocks.

One of those fire arrows.

Sorry still ranting... I guess I should just shut up, not big on entry into those measuring clubs anyways, did it once, likely never again.
Life is about learning from your mistakes!

Chek-mate hunter I 62" riser with 60" limbs 49&42lbs@28

Samick Sage 62" 50lbs@28

Big Jim Mountain Monarch Recurve  60 inch / 50 lbs @ 28

Offline JohnV

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 03:48:00 PM »
Most would agree that a lighted nock by itself offers little advantage other than it is easier to find your arrow or see a hit when lighting is not good. Some say that compound shooters out west that often shoot as far as 100 yards can use the lighted nock to help them "sight in" on game they are shooting at.  "Ooops, just over the back...need to lower my hold a little..."  I have mixed opinions on the lighted nock but vote "no" for its use because permitting its use establishes a precedence for permitting electronics on arrows. How about electronic tracking devices inside or on the arrow shaft to help you find shot animals? Wouldn't that be helpful/good to help reduce wounding losses? Others, however would argue that it would encourage people to take bad shots as they now have a homing device in the arrow to help find poorly hit animals.  With regards to the compound and some accessories such as release aids...that train has left the station and there is no going back on those items.
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Offline ChuckC

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 03:51:00 PM »
The Advantage Is In Their Being Able To Say "No Electronics On Bow Or Arrow".   ItIsJustTheirRule. That's All.  Their Game, Their Rule.

Chuckc

Offline Nook

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 04:03:00 PM »
What JohnV says X2...
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Offline akbowbender

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 04:40:00 PM »
I wish I had kept the ballot paperwork so I had the exact wording of the pro argument, but it basically said that some members feel that the club is run by old time traditional archers who are against any kind of technological advancement in archery equipment. The pro argument also said this might keep someone from joining and entering an a trophy animal.

I got to wonder if the pro side is more interested in numbers than fair chase. True, there is strength in numbers, but there is also more money.

I've been thinking about withdrawing my two Sitka Blacktail entries and canceling my membership. I imagine P & Y is primarily a compound club now any.
Chuck

Offline George Vernon

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 05:29:00 PM »
We live in an interesting time.  The electronics revolution has been going on for about 40 years.  I remember being in awe when I got to move from a slide rule to an HP 35 calculator.  Then personal computers.  Then portable phones.  Now tablets, smart phones, GPS, trail cameras and a whole bunch of stuff that has changed the way we work, play and communicate.

I think part of the problem is the 'written rules' are about 10 years behind the rate of change of the technology.  Historical measures of 'good' or 'bad' don't apply in quite the same literal way they used to.  Here's an interesting example.  I won't name the state or the game warden, just sharing the conversation I overheard.

Basically, two gentlemen were having a lively discussion about whether or not the use of walkie talkie types of two way radios should be legal to use while hunting.  The debate took place at a deer check in station, so when the game warden showed up for his routine check, he was asked to join in.  He replied they were still illegal, but if one needed to speak to his or her buddies, they should feel free to use their cell phone since there were no written rules regarding cell phones.  He laughed and said to be careful and not use any cell with 'push to talk' capability since that would be considered a two way radio.

In a very serious vein, he went on to say the local DNR was struggling with all the new tools such as trail cameras, rangefinders, cell phones, lighted sights, lighted nocks, etc.  Which of these would eliminate 'fair chase' standards that have been used for years to assess hunting options.  He felt strong arguments could be made, pro and con for each of the new 'tools'.  Cell phones can be used like radios so moving folks around to intercept deer could be easily done and violate 'fair chase'.  But they were also a great aid in safety and are used many times each year in the areas he patrols to help folks who are injured, sick, lost, or having trouble pulling a deer out of the woods.  He likes trail cameras for the population studies he does (more reliable than the postal carrier talking about the number of deer seen while delivering mail), but he could also see trail cameras taking some of the 'woodmanship' or basic scouting skills out of the equation.

I think groups like P&Y are well motivated, but their 'absolute' rules can come across as arbitrary since the principles used are not clearly stated or understood.  Saying no electronics on a bow or arrow draws a pretty wide line in the sand.  I understand saying no to lighted nocks is keeping with this rule, and any variation gives rise to the concern about moving to a slippery slope and harming fair chase.  But I also understand it can help in determining how good a shot was, and aid in locating the down deer.  There is a big difference in lighted nocks vs. lighted sights, to me.  Others may may not see the same distinction.

Offline SERGIO VENNERI

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »
What Hummert says x10, absolutely absurd!  :knothead:

Offline VictoryHunter

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 05:52:00 PM »
A lot of people including myself feel that lighted nocks as with lighted sights would allow and perhaps encourage people to shoot after legal hunting hours. I wish the P&Y club would separate themselves from B&C and adopt their own rules, especially when it comes to scoring and get back to what hunting with archery equipment is all about. Both Pope and Young would be dissatisfied with the direction the club has gone.
There is a place for all God's creatures....right next to the potatoes and gravy.
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Offline Izzy

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 05:56:00 PM »
Thats why I always shoot little critters and let all the big ones walk. I dont have a single worry about what Pope and young  says.   :knothead:

Offline akbowbender

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 06:10:00 PM »
I'm a meat hunter. I just happened to shoot two that qualified for the book. Haven't entered anything since 1987. Not sure why I'm still a member.   :dunno:

Nicely put, VictoryHunter.
Chuck

Offline Hummer3T

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 06:10:00 PM »
Awesome Izzy.   :D    :D    :D
Life is about learning from your mistakes!

Chek-mate hunter I 62" riser with 60" limbs 49&42lbs@28

Samick Sage 62" 50lbs@28

Big Jim Mountain Monarch Recurve  60 inch / 50 lbs @ 28

Online elkken

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 06:20:00 PM »
Glenn St Charles must be rolling over in his grave .... while we all enjoy technology in our daily lives there are principles that should remain as the founders originally set them out.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good

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Offline Stickbow

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 07:12:00 PM »
The P&Y can do what they want as far as I am concerned.

The problem for me lies with state agencies looking towards P&Y to set the standard. That is how Idaho ended up with 80% letoff.

Is there really anything the industry has come out with in the last 15 or so years that we have NEEDED? They are not inventing this crap to help us.   :banghead:

Offline Stickbow

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 07:12:00 PM »
The P&Y can do what they want as far as I am concerned.

The problem for me lies with state agencies looking towards P&Y to set the standard. That is how Idaho ended up with 80% letoff.

Is there really anything the industry has come out with in the last 15 or so years that we have NEEDED? They are not inventing this crap to help us.   :banghead:

Offline Slickhead

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 07:15:00 PM »
not a problem for me unless P&Y start a doe category  :bigsmyl:
Slickhead

Online dnovo

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 07:23:00 PM »
Pope and Young club make the rules cause it's their club. Don't like it, don't join. I have a couple book animals, never entered cause I don't care.
The issue as I see it is where does it end? To me lighted nocks are another gadget. Everyone says they make it easier to see the hit. Key word there to me is "easier". Why does everyone want to make everything easier. What's the challenge in that? Want to see the hit: use a brighter color fletch or don't shoot when it's too dark to see the arrow. See, I just made it easier.
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Offline kadbow

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Re: Lighted Nocks and Pope and Young
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 07:38:00 PM »
Illegal in Colorado, I have no problem with the no electronics on bow or arrow.
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