HH BUG GOT ME - Part Two!

[ScouterMike]

Being left eye dominant, I can tell you looking at the arrow will really mess with my ability to know where everything is pointed. I learned to compensate when I shot handgun silhouettes with open sights but the eyes tired quickly.

I talked with Bob Wesley several years ago at length and came to the conclusion his system would not work for me. The "indirect" part will create two images and everything falls apart from there. His teaching on form really helped though.

When my eyes get tired, say late at a 3d shoot on a bright day, I will see two targets, not good. I mentioned all this to highlight the accomplishments of Howard Hill. Being cross eye dominant adds a whole new meaning to split vision.

When I discovered ASLs I studied John Schulz Hitting Them Like Howard Hill and his video and that worked. Funny, it is the same basic instruction I got from Stacy Groscup years ago...

Looking forward to more details about John's training class and stories. What a great opportunity that must have been!

[Mudd]

I hate to admit being this ignorant but I have a confession.

I don't see my arrow when I am shooting and have tried for years to figure out how to find my "point on" distance to no avail.

Please help me out here but "be nice".

Thank you!

God bless,Mudd

[Homebru]

Originally posted by Mudd:
I hate to admit being this ignorant but I have a confession.

I don't see my arrow when I am shooting and have tried for years to figure out how to find my "point on" distance to no avail.

Please help me out here but "be nice".

Thank you!

God bless,Mudd

Mudd,
You have to consciously and overtly place the tip of your arrow (visually) on the spot you want to hit.  Similar to the gap shown below but you put the tip of the arrow on the center of the target.

You move forward / backward as needed until the arrow hits the target exactly where it was supposed to.  You measure your distance from the target and voila', you have your "point on" distance.

Now, this is only relevant for that set of arrows of that length.  If you end up with some sets of arrows longer or shorter based upon tuning, those sets will have a slightly different "point on" distance.

Hope this helps
homebru

   

[Mudd]

Thanks Homebru!

What would be a good distance to begin at?

[Charlie Lamb]

Mudd... a lot depends on your backstop and/or what's beyond your target.

If it's a bad thing to shoot over your target then start long. Like 55-60 yards. The worst that would happen is the arrow would fall short. Slowly move the distance to target closer until you are on.

Closing one eye might help in this process.

I double checked my point on yesterday. Stepped off 40 paces and proceeded to shoot 8 arrows into a group about a foot wide and damn near all perfect for elevation.

Did the same today and my first 2 arrows went right over my back stop. Go figure.

[Charlie Lamb]

My bow drawing strength had really gone down hill over the past few years. Mostly, it seems, because of my knees causing me so much pain.
No walking back and forth shooting and pulling arrows.

Now since the weather has gotten good I'm working on it big time. Coupled with John Schulz's class and his suggestions on what I need to work on I'm form shooting (15 ft. no target) almost exclusively for at least the next couple of weeks.

Right now I'm shooting 8 arrows per round and 6 rounds. Both my strength and my form are improving. Groups are getting tighter and my release a lot better... I wasn't consistent at all with my longbows.

I'm shooting both morning and evening now.

For me to be able to tell where my arrow is pointed, I need to be absolutely committed to one exact spot and keep my focus exactly on it.  When I am on, I can see the the alignment and loft of the arrow by the time that I hit anchor. One can practice pointing with anything, much like if you were to take flash  light point it at something first and then turn it on.  This can be done with anything straight as well. Start at your side just staring at something and pointing at it.  When you bring that arrow or pipe or whatever, up  near your eye, it is easier to get very close.  I think that is what conditioned instinctive shooting is.  You get good at pointing your drawn at something without looking.  To find your point on and be fairly precise, it does require that things are pretty steady at release.  I would practice just putting the arrow on the bow shelf and draw the arrow without the string and stare at the target at a good guess of a range and just put the point visually without shooting. I still think that point on is the same a secondary sighting as long as the vision does not shift to the arrow.  Once it is established, the automatic computer has enough data to work without much mechanical analyzing and those 30 to 40 yard shots are easier.  No one has tunnel vision so narrow that the arrow is not in the sight plane. From 30 and under I shoot better if I do not try to secondary aim, I do get an impression of the arrow position at  some point during the straight draw and when I miss by half a cows worth, I kind of remember that I knew that I was going to miss.

[Gordon Jabben]

Good stuff.  Charlie when shooting without a target, do you have a hard time not finding something on the target to aim at?  After an arrow or two, when I'm working on form, I will almost automatically find something to shoot at unless I close my eyes.  Like pavan, my point on is almost 60 yards with 550gr. arrows, wish it was less.

[Charlie Lamb]

Yesterdays Point On experience was so surprising that I'm going to move back to 50 and try that today.

Gordon. Typically I shoot towards the first arrow with each successive shot. It would be almost impossible for me to shoot and not pick something to shoot at almost immediately.

The trick is to forget about where the arrow is impacting. Your focus should be on proper execution of the shot. Once form is grooved in the arrows will start stacking up.

Since I have a large dirt butt to shoot into I guess I could point my arrow at a new area each shot. I may try that.

[Green]

Excellent discussion gentlemen.  

John's seminar last weekend has received a lot of discussion across the boards.  So much respect for the mans' contributions to bowhunting as he carried forth the Howard Hill torch.  

[Mudd]

With a little personalized instruction thanks to Mr Lamb I think I am beginning to figure out my "point on".

With one bow it's 40 yards and with a couple of others of a newer design it's 50 yards.

I am going to keep at this for awhile then evaluate as to how it might or might not fit it with my style of shooting.

Thanks to all who jumped in here to help me get it through this thick skull exactly what "point on" is and how to get there.

God bless,Mudd

[two4hooking]

FWIW my point on is currently 45 yards.  Probably the last I will think about that for a while though.  Interesting exercise nonetheless.    

[Charlie Lamb]

Here's one to ponder from Mr. Schulz.

Center of the bow should be 1 1/4" below the top of the grip. Says that way it lines up with the bones in the wrist providing natural pointing and strength.

Chew on that.

Most of my bows are the 1 1/4", what if my bones are 1 1/2"?

[two4hooking]

I assume he was talking about the tiller forces being centered 1 1/4 inches below correct?  I thought most Hill styles have a shorter and stiffer lower limb, so the geometric center of the bow should be above the handle somewhere correct??    

[Charlie Lamb]

Yep, about 3/4" above the center of the grip on a 4" grip.

[snakebit40]

I don't mean change the subject, but I have a question. I bought a Wesley Special last month. I measured the string that was on the bow and it measured 59 1/2 giving the bow 6 3/4 BH. I thought perfect!

So I ordered a SBD string the same length, it finally arrived and it measures 59 1/8 giving me a 7 3/4 inch BH. I strung it over for a few days hoping the string would stretch. Well after shooting it a little, putting wax on it and heating it up with leather, and leaving it strung for a couple days. No stretch.

So my question(s) is will I hurt the bow shooting it with a 7 3/4 inch BH? Can I do something else to stretch the string?

Two questions. Did you measure the string on a loaded bow?  Can you untwist it some?  There is a little bit of stretch in a two strand B55, they are longer on the bow than without tension.

[snakebit40]

Thanks for the response Pavan.

All measurements were taken off the bow. I'll try and un twist it. I didn't know how much I can do and still keep the strings integrity. I'll try it and see what happens.

I remember watching Steve Fausel on MOBB vol.2 and seeing his BH being more than "normal". So my biggest concern is, will I hurt my bow shooting with a 7 3/4 inch BH.

I don't think so, but it will change its personality a bit.  I read some Hill style bows  can lose some cast if shot with an extra tall brace, it was true with my favorite Schulz.