HH BUG GOT ME - Part Two!

[jeffg]

All I was concerned about if a 500gr @ 160 was to slow or not.
I just started shooting longbows recently instead of recurves and there are differences that I am learning.

[David Mitchell]

You might be totally surprised if you ever just walk up to a dead or dying deer and take an arrow in hand and stick it in/through the deer's chest at how very little force it takes to go through and stick in the ground on the other side.  I have done that with a hog as well.  It made me wonder why we obsess so much about such things.

[jeffg]

Just trying to avoid crippled game from bad penetration "bone, cartilage whatever. If you get the best that you can from your equipment then the rest is up to you. Just being good enough is irresponsible to me. That is my opinion and everybody has one.

[Hermon]

Originally posted by jeffg:
I was just shooting through the chrony. I evidently was not pulling it back to anchor, once I consistently got to anchor the average speed is 169 that is a whole lot better. The chrony not only tells me the speed but knowing that helps me to concentrate on bringing the bow to full draw. So it is not all about speed but consistency.

I bought a chrony a couple years ago and I feel this is the best use of it.  To be able to tell when I am being consistent.  I don't give a hoot what the speed is, as long as they are nearly the same each shot.

[Bob B.]

jeffg,

500gr @ 160 fps ... if you multiply 500 x 160 and divide by 225218 ( gravitational coefficient ) you get a slug force of .355 - meaning the momentum of the arrow.  

Ideally, .36 is the target number for deer.  That said, if you have good arrow flight, a sharp 2 blade broadhead and are shooting 20 yards or less, you should be fine.  I think you could kill a lot of animals with that set up as long as you do not push the range.  I have killed a lot of animals with 500 grain arrows and speed of 160 - 165 fps.  Usually I did not get complete pass throughs but did get arrow sticking out of both sides.

Good luck and good hunting.

Bob.

Where or who came up with that .36?  I think it should be .41693.  Even then using a broadhead like a  Grizzly or Zwickey and being certain that the arrow is flying straight behind the broadhead is important.  Of course, all the numbers in the world will not matter if the archer because of buck fever or an odd shooting situation comes up with a shorter than normal draw.
Reminds me of when I told my wife to not shoot past 20 yards with her 38 pound bow at her draw with 425 grain arrows.  She proudly showed me an arrow covered back to front in blood and declared that she waited until the deer was on the closer trail.  I thought wow, she shot it at 6 yards.  She was referring to the old cow paths on the hill, not the current little deer trails. Her closer trail was 32 yards away, the deer went down in about 50 yards in a clump of cedar shrub.
Reminds me of another one. A big dude, he thought he was a big dude, that shot a 70 pound Herters recurve, kept at me because those Hill longbows did not have enough power to kill a deer. At that time I had a 50 pounder, a 60 pounder and an 89 pounder.  He invited me to shoot my 2020s out of both bows as proof. The Herters put out a faster arrow than the heavy bow and that is all the proof he needed, because he shot four deer and never got the arrow coming out the other side.  He showed me his arrows, 2219 29" long, swedged both ends and Bodkin heads, they flew terrible and he about gave himself a hernia twisting and torquing to get the bow back.  That year, I shot a deer late in the season with a 55 pound Bear takedown, he couldn't have prouder for thinking that he changed my evil longbow ways.

[jeffg]

On the advice of so many on this forum I came up with a good set up for arrows. GT 3555 28" BOP and 225gr. up front. 500gr total @50# 10 GPP. Just what I was looking for. Thanks for all the advice.

[MikeNova]

I was reading hunting the hard way last night. Howard said he didn't like footed arrows because it put to much weight up front causing to much of a drop in trajectory. I have a new bow coming in and if it spines stiff I was thinking of going to a 190 plus grain head. Any thoughts on drop in trajectory?

[Brianlocal3]

Here is James Berry and his brother Dan Berry at a recent shoot.
Out there taking names on the course

A compel of ol timers who might know a thing or two about building and shooting longbows

 

Hill liked barreled shafts at the time he wrote that and talked about his broadhead not getting too heavy.  The advantage of that barreled shaft is that they are stiff for their weight. Hill obviously was going for arrow speed, while still preferring large feathers, a combination of things that worked for him. I have had people tell me how a point heavy arrow decays nose downward, not sure that makes much sense if they were flying good at initial speeds.  I have seen that a moderate weight cedar shaft with a 125 grain head flies much flatter than a heavier shaft with a much heavier head on long shots, but that was more of a total weight issue.  One of the advantages of a net length wood arrow is that you can shoot a lighter spine, lighter point weight and get a lighter faster arrow, it seems all we worry about these days is penetration.  On whitetails, we have never had a penetration issue with wood arrows, perhaps due to the broadhead choice and good arrow flight. One thing I would put money on, if Hill noticed that he had trajectory problem at the ranges that he wanted his arrows to shoot, I am sure he could see the difference.  He may have been testing arrow flight at much longer ranges than I would shoot when hunting.  Things show up more on those long shots.

[shick]

Brian, good to see James and Dan together.  Thanks for the pic.
Shick

[MikeNova]

I wouldn't buy or trust anything from that pirate looking guy...,,wait a minute I have bought three bows from him!

[Green]

Me too Mike.  What wuz I thinkin'?  Lol.

[JDBerry]

Rob, unlike Mike your troubles are not over, you have one on order. lol  ..OE

[CHENRYIV]

Great pic Brian. James is that the new Vixen your were shooting? I've got the same problem to Mike. I've got #2 on order  

[Green]

[Okie man]

I got James personal bow and can't believe he let it go. I believe it is the finest bow I have ever shot. I bet he is kicking himself right now wishing that he had kept it. It is very hard to beat yew for limb cores. Thanks James. You have been a great friend and the finest bowyer around in my opinion. Someday I hope to get up there and take some long range lessons from you.

[JDBerry]

Crispin, the bow in photo is "Red" Vixen, red back gray belly, heat treat boo, went ol school with her. I may buy a Deer tag and go meet a Muley this year with her. PS, Crispin your troubles have just started.lol

 Okie, Ms. Pinky is hot, Like any good longbow, she will tell you, what you are doing "right/wrong" in form, You should see the Morning star that's going out tomarrow, its a knock out.   ..OE

[1flyfish]

James,You need to start showing some of those bows before they go out so we can all  drool and think about putting in another order for one of your masterpeices.Lou

[Brianlocal3]

Iflyfish

I have been telling James for a while now to take pics of these bows and send them to me before he mails them for that very reason

He is hardheaded though and won't listen lol