HH BUG GOT ME - Part Two!

If your thumb does not drop into the pocket behind your jaw bone it will be in the way.  The size of the glasses can make a difference as well.

[Learner]

Originally posted by pavan:
If your thumb does not drop into the pocket behind your jaw bone it will be in the way.  The size of the glasses can make a difference as well.

That's exactly what I have found, Larry.  At least keeping my thumb in line with my fingers allows the joint to sit flatter on my jaw, which helps.

This then leads to my next topic:

Nate Steen shared with me that he shoots with his index and middle finger anchored on either side of the mouth (above and beneath).  (And he has a friend who wears eyeglasses who anchors even lower, with his index finger in the corner of his mouth.)

That got me thinking: in most photos that I see of Howard, he seems to anchor the way that Nate describes:

   
(photo from T.J. Conrads' book, "The Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook")

This anchor does seem to help somewhat with keeping my elbow in better alignment with the arrow. An added benefit is that it enables more clearance with the frame of my eyeglasses.

Best wishes,
Frank

Everyone is a little different. My index finger is under my cheek bone and my middle finger is on the bottom side of the corner of the mouth and a bit back.  If you get up too high, it can mess with your vision and head position.  Of course, index at the corner of the mouth will help clear the glasses, it will also increase your point on.  Secondary aiming can be just an impression of the hangles and dangles of where the arrow is pointing, without getting overly itchy about gaps and point placement. Lots of people shoot just fine with the index at the corner.  Perhaps a partial adjustment is all you need.  Is it summer yet?  I have a serious itch.

[Learner]

Originally posted by pavan:
......Secondary aiming can be just an impression of the hangles and dangles of where the arrow is pointing, without getting overly itchy about gaps and point placement......

Larry, that is exactly what I've been experiencing.  As I'm coming to draw, my peripheral vision seems to sense the angle of the shaft (which determines where it is pointing) rather than just point placement.

With a Hill style bow and Hill form that acknowledgement of the bow, knuckle, arrow or whatever, happens in the last 6" of draw.  After many thousands of shots, it all becomes fairly automatic.  When things start to go wrong, there is a wake up alarm and one needs to pay attention what was off.  It is quite often this juncture where TP or missed anchors or other things go wrong.  The key is to work it out from the beginning and reaffirm the basics and work on the particulars.  That is why I like bop net broadhead arrows, it makes the one variable easy to spot. Changing up bow styles and grip styles too much can confuse the automatic responses.  That is one reason I had the recent bow dump.

Notice on the picture above, the bottom hen feather is angled into the corner, while the upper hen feather is pointing up.  That is what right wings do on my jo-Jan with no nock rotations with right wing out of right hand bows.

[Learner]

Originally posted by pavan:
.....That is why I like bop net broadhead arrows, it makes the one variable easy to spot......

Larry, I'm not really certain what you mean by this.   Could you explain please?

Thank you,
Frank

Net length, as in a target point or blunt would be the measurement to the forward corner of a field point or the lead corner of a blunt, would be the exact same measure as your draw length.  When the blunt is drawn that lead edge crosses finger and comes to the back of the bow, the point being drawn onto the bow. What I call 'bop' net broadheads, the back edge of the blade touches my index finger.  In the fall when I start shooting broadheads in practice, it functions as non mechanical draw length check.  The one minor issue I have is that my left hand draw is 3/8" less than my right hand draw, due to an old neck injury, I shoot with a slightly more open stance left handed.  This requires for me to make some left hand only arrows, to help groove in that draw.  I also put black lines around around a couple of arrows that has one line at front edge and one line at the back edge of the bow riser, when I use my other draw check device, my wife.  "Short", "long", "your release lost a half inch" "You jerked that one" Life ain't easy for a boy named sue.

[Learner]

Thank you, Larry!

i just gave my 52 pound right hand Big River away.   He needed few shooting tips, his form was all over the map.  When things settled down we went on to find the right arrows for him.   I used my red ball as a secondary guide, so I could tell if the trial arrows were flying on line.  To my surprise and very quickly,  mister "I don't ever see the arrow'' realized that he could stare at a spot on the target and still see the arrow without looking at it.   Now I  have a set of arrows that needs to be built for him.  Sometimes I am amazed how fast people can pick things up, he looked like he was ready for hunting in less than 100 shots.

[nineworlds9]

     
that is awesome Larry.  what gesture!

I am "back" as it were.  No matter how much I default to hybrids I always get the bug again.  This time I decided on some strong medicine...I ordered one of Craigs new Black Mambas specd to my exact desires.  He really knocked it out of the park with the look of this bow.  Pretty stoked as this is one that will NOT be leaving my rack.  Cant wait to hear it whisper.  4 more weeks!

Not really, I had bows that I don't use, I hate going through the rigors of selling bows on line.  This way I get the satisfaction of knowing that the bows are going to people that can get good use out of them.   What goes around, comes around.   I have one more to go.  Biathalon dude had all of those cheap Ribtecs, I saved a set for myself, but all of the others have gone along with arrows for the bows.   When I saw the first blood trail from one my gifted arrows, I had second thoughts about about giving anymore out.    Probably the heaviest I have ever seen and short.  That is what I call payback, along with the set of gutters that he and another guy are going hang for me on one side of my house.

niner, I had a robertson with the 'recurve light shaped grip', no, I had two of them.   They worked for me when target shooting, but when I took hunting shots my head went for the Hill style grip.  I drooled all over those Mambas.  What I would suggest, (that is if you have issues like me),  is to refresh yourself and get all John Schulzy with that new bow.  All the way back to the beginning and add nothing and change nothing.  I do it every year, I treat myself like a total beginner and go through the entire protocol.   This year, after taking a month off,  I went and shot some without doing that.  Very soon I realized that once again I had to spend a week long refresher course.  Hill style shooting is not a loosey goosey thing, it is tighter and stronger than most want to think it is.  Then once you get into the groove with that Mamba, only shoot that bow with one arrow style and try to wear it out.  Of course, I would suggest net or bop net length wood arrows out of a Hill.

[nineworlds9]

Well Larry I still think you're a real mensch for doing that.  That's pretty cool you passed along arrows too, I think you're earning some automatic mojo with the gods of the wild hunt.

I am so antsy for the Mamba to get here that Ive been on a recent mission to grab a decent used Hill if I could ...when I was at the TBOF Spring Championship a handful of weeks back I spied a lovely HHA bow hanging on Big Jim's used bow rack. I had a hankering but kept my restraint at the time and passed.  I had already been feeling the early symptoms of the bug and then there was the whole Mamba wait to deal with, short as it is compared to most.  

Well, I couldn't hold out and a few days ago I told Jim I needed that lovely stick he had on the rack.

I was able to nab a near new HHA Big Five, 70" 45@28 with Gaboon Ebony riser and black glass, and the neat thing is its one where Craig put all the lams behind the riser, so the riser and belly glass appear seamless being all black.  It looks so cool!  

She arrived today, and after the first few shots I knew I was back in the game.  Took to it again like a fish to water, after having not shot a Hill in almost a year.  

Now I will say this...I am absolutely confounded by what arrow gave me perfect flight this evening.  I dunno if I forgot all my Hill tuning notes in the past year but this is what tuned for this 70" 45@28 Big Five braced at 6.5" with a B50 (ick!) string:  a carbon Axis Traditional 340 cut to 29" bop with 200g total up front.

I started out with a few different micro diameter full length 400 shafts and they all showed mega WEAK, then I tried some pretty soft 5/16 woodies, like maybe 40/45 spine max, nope they shot like snakes too...and then later bam the cut down 340 which is a darn stiff arrow ...and it flies perfect. Mind you I'm pulling these an honest 28-29" to the back side of the shelf.   Is it just that the power stroke on this 70" bow is so long??  I think I've been shooting center and past center cut hybrids for so many months now that my arrow mojo is back to square one with these before center bows.  I just thought a soft shaft would do it, but nope.  29" 340 on a dang 45# Hill.  Perfect laser flight.  And man theyre hitting hard too.  

What gives?

Here she is, perfect to hold me over until Mamba #46 is ready:

   
   
   
   

[Learner]

WOW, Chuck.....that is the most stunning bow I've ever seen!      

What it the grip?  Moose?

Simply stunning!                

Best wishes,
Frank

Niner, I see that is a lefty Big 5, it has a nice round tiller to it.  I assume that mamba will be a lefty as well.  All of these Hills heading southeast come pretty close to my house, Craig really should let me check those bows out to make sure everything is alright.  It wouldn't be all that much of a detour. I would suggest a 50-55 cut to bop net with either a 145 or 160 grain point as starting spine.

[nineworlds9]

Originally posted by Learner:
WOW, Chuck.....that is the most stunning bow I've ever seen!        

What it the grip?  Moose?

Simply stunning!                        

Best wishes,
Frank

Thanks Frank!  It's definitely different with the ultra dark ebony riser/black glass  and the lams behind the riser...the belly side of the bow just looks like this continuous piece of black.   It's a pretty neat effect.  

As for the grip, I'm not exactly sure?  It's a reddish brown color and smooth and seems like it's very tough leather.  It could be moose perhaps?  Or maybe the smooth side of elk?  It looks too fine grained to be cow but who knows.  It feels great and the grip shape on this one was a lucky find too, it's more of a teardrop, with a narrow edge on the belly side, not the more typical oval shape on some of HHA bows I've had.

[nineworlds9]

She's a smoothie Larry.  I'm never going back to a 68" bow.  These 70s are perfect pulled to the 28-29 range.  That Mamba better not make any detours!!  Lol.  I will have Big Jim send down a couple 50-55s like you described and give them a try.  These 340 carbons have me nailing my deer target everytime dead straight tonight but woodies would sure be sweet from these lovely arcs of bamboo.  

I forgot how damn satisfying it is to shoot these things.  They never lack for character.  Even with a stock B50 string I'm getting only a pleasant low pulse on the shot, and dead quiet.  Zero anything even close to "shock".  This thing needs to get out in the woods soon!

[David Mitchell]

nineworlds9, just plan on sending that lefty bow on to me after you get your new mamba....please! I don't mean for free or anything like that either.  I will give it a very good home.   :D

[FITTER]

That is a BEAUTIFUL bow!!!! Congrats