HH BUG GOT ME - Part Two!

[Orion]

Pavan.  I'm just trying to answer his question and help him shoot what he has or may buy.  Sure other designs are more suitable for a fixed crawl, but if this is the only bow he has or is likely to get, and he likes it, and/or he can't afford to buy/trade for another, screwdrivers are used to fix a lot of things.

[NotDylan]

So here's a little insight to my situation. 

I am new to archery in general.  I picked up a used Bear Montana a few years ago with the desire to learn to shoot instinctively and after a few months of trying to teach myself via youtube university I gave it up after getting very inconsistent results.  I shot 3 under and have never really given split finger much of a chance. 

Recently I got the itch again to pick up the bow.  I discovered a very helpful video on youtube called "The Push" that really broke down how gap shooting and stringwalking works.  It also introduced me to the fixed crawl method.  With my new found knowledge (about 2 weeks ago) I went outside and gave gap shooting a try and I was immediately more consistent.  Now my groups still aren't great so I've got some form issues to work out and I will be searching for some help locally for that.  I do have an ILF bow that I can adjust for each style but I have not set it up for fixed crawl yet.

That being said, ASL's are what I want to shoot.  The simplicity, nostalgia, and the romance of traditional archery draws me in.  I want a big D bow, cedar arrows, and a leather quiver on my back.  My ILF recurve does not scratch that itch, though it does get me outside shooting and enjoying archery. 

I'm still wet enough behind the ears in the world of archery that I am not married to a certain style and am willing to try anything.  Thanks for the tips guys!

[pavan]

if you still have that Montana, keep it, nothing wrong with them for regular use or learning with.  If not do not jump on a heavy for you draw ASL, a 45 or 50 pound Hill style bow will work for almost everything..  If you have not watched the John Schulz videos, in either 4 parts or put in as a whole by Peter S.  Like I said before, what John says is just as important or more so than what he shows.  Don't add or take anything away from it. 

[Orion]

Agreed.  If you want too shoot an ASL this is as good a place to start as any.  Given you're really new to trad archery, you should have lots of fun experimenting with different shooting styles.  You'll eventually arrive at one that you like and works best for you. If you have an archery club nearby, would also be good to try to find a mentor who can explain, demonstrate and help you understand different shooting styles. Good luck.

[two4hooking]

I agree with Paven. I've spent much frustration and years of unlearning the target form habits that I aquired. If the Hill style calls to you, then commit to it.  It will be easier if you don't pickup bad baggage first. 

[pavan]

Dylan, the Hill dialog may be different than what most use.  The advantages of getting the right bow for you right out of starting blocks can be critical.  You may find that your best draw will be around 26" if your wing span is around 70" plus a bit.  In that case you may want a 66" bow, but if your wing span is 76", the best draw may be as long 29" with an ASL then a longer bow will be better.  The ASL design really comes to its own when shooting with complete control with fluid form.  Once one reaches that, it is the only bow for them, but it comes with it own refinements that are different than static target forms.  Of course, it is possible to shoot any bow a variety of ways and there are those that will say to find what works for you.  A lot of Hill bows have been purchased with high hopes and discarded using that kind of advice.  So then as a future ASL shooter, what is your wing span and what poundage do you think that you would be comfortable with?

[NotDylan]

Wingspan is 69 3/8" and I'm currently shooting my ilf recurve with 35# limbs as I'm getting my strength back.  Been fine in the past with 45# and that's what I had planned on ordering. Though right now I get fatigued with the 45# sooner than I'd  prefer.

[pavan]

35 is a good training weight.  I was afraid that you maybe only had heavy to draw bow available.  That's close to my my wingspan, I draw under 27" with longbows.

[evgb127]

John Schulz just made more DVD copies of “Hitting ‘em Like Howard Hill.”  I just placed my order so that I can stop worrying about the YouTube videos being taken down. 


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[Overspined]

I believe with ASL longer is better. I started with 66” and I don’t have a long draw, maybe 27”, but the day I went 68” I never looked back. I love 67-69” ASL despite the shorter draw. Less finger pinch, smoother draw. When I started making them I’ve been able to creep down in length and enjoy the shorter ones by building it into the design. I would always go up in length when in doubt.

[Recurve Amigo]

Nice

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[pavan]

For Not Dylan, I would recommend a 64"string follow if he goes 45 pounds or 66" if he goes for something like a backset 3 lam. 

[NotDylan]

That Misty Dawn is calling my name. 

[pavan]

Excellent choice.  Give your stats to JD and let him to his magic for you.

[Overspined]

You effectively lose about 2” of draw when you go to a reverse Handle and get the feel of about an inch less in draw when going SF.   so going 64 or 66” is reasonable when transitioning from a backset bow.

[pavan]

With the JD Berry Morningstar, you do not lose 2" of performance.

[NotDylan]

Spoke with Mr Berry again today, my deposit will be in the mail shortly.  Sounds like I have until spring or so to decide exactly what I want. 

In the meantime, I'll set my ILF bow up for split and get to work on the Hill style of shooting.  Any reason that type of bow wouldn't work for practice?

I also see some mention of this thread of shooting the Hill style with a shorter draw than what you may normally have.  Can someone explain that?

[pavan]

ND you stated that you have just under a 70 inch wing span, that is just a tad less than me.  I draw 26&1/4".  When i slightly open up my stance it goes to 26" for both hands.  I shoot both right and left handed.  I have turned a number of compound shooters to trad archery, they generally loose a lot.  Those that went from recurve to Hill style bows try not to lose much draw, but as the Hill style of shooting sinks in they average about an inch and a half shorter draw.  Of course you can shoot Hill style with a recurve, there is a slight variation draw length due to the deepness of the grip.  A recurve grip tends to want the wrist and bow arm to be straighter.  You may have a 27+" draw with the recurve and then a 26" draw with the longbow.  That slightly bent bow arm with a straighter grip bow is your friend, don't fight it.  Just try to use the recurve in training without jamming up your bow arm and bow arm shoulder.  Remember take it slow, no one will penalize you for sinking into your anchor for a bit.  Allow the bow to cant and find that sweet spot with your middle finger where the eye is over the arrow. For myself it is on the front of my first molar on both sides, thumb knuckle on the corner point of the back of my jaw and my index finger under the orbital of my cheek bone.   I have people feel around with a light bow without shooting to poke around until they find the sweet spot for the three points to settle.  Personally, I would stick with a straight or slightly saddled grip, with that Misty Dawn.   The slight saddle with the tapered belly flat on my duo shooter fits my hand perfect, I just let the whole thing settle right where it needs to be, with no thought my part.
    Oh yes, when learning form, work on one aspect at a time until it becomes automatic.

[Pat Ct]

Might be a dumb question but I was wondering if the Toelke Super D would be considered an ASL?

[pavan]

No, not exactly, but you can use it like one.  Just like a Robertson d/r, a couple of things they may not quite do like an ASL, but with other things that they may do better than an ASL.  Hair splitting at its best.