HH BUG GOT ME - Part Two!

[evgb127]

I’ve owned a Sprague and a Whisper. It all comes down to personal preference. If you find that you love your Classic, then get a Whisper.  If you get your Shelton and enjoy shooting it more, then get a Ramer. Maybe try to shoot one of each this Summer before you come up on the build list to see what you like best. Honestly, you can’t go wrong.  The only suggestion (and take that with a grain of salt) is that you can get away with a shorter bow when you order a reverse handle.  If you’re comfortable with a 66” Classic, then a 64” Whisper will work.

[Michael Guran]

That’s a great looking Classic Ugly Joe-welcome to the addiction!  What part of western NC are you in?  I’m just over the line, about 1 hour west of Boone.  I hunt in Avery, Mitchell, and McDowell counties.  I have a Whisper you are welcome to shoot if you want to try one out…

[Tim Reese]

Some Very nice bows posted everyone. And way to catch the bug!! A new mist and 2 others already ordered. That’s my kind of addiction!!! Lol.

Chad the green glass and Osage is a very nice combo imo.

[UglyJoe]

That’s a great looking Classic Ugly Joe-welcome to the addiction!  What part of western NC are you in?  I’m just over the line, about 1 hour west of Boone.  I hunt in Avery, Mitchell, and McDowell counties.  I have a Whisper you are welcome to shoot if you want to try one out…

Thanks for the offer! I'd take you up on that if we get a chance. Although, unless you happened to be wrong-handed like me, I wont really be able to get a feel for the "feel" on a right-hander, I think. Have you considered shooting the trad only shoot at Blue Ridge Bowhunters on the 11 & 12 of June or the 23 of July? It's my club and should be a good time.

I wanted to go to the Howard Hill Classic this weekend but couldn't justify the cost of gas for the trip to Alabama since my son wasn't able to tag along. Hopefully I get to go to a shoot that Steve attends sometime before I come back up on the build list. Maybe I'll get to shoot some examples then.

I do have a question for some of you long time HH shooters. I've found that I am getting riser slap really bad with this bow that I do not get with other bows. I thought it might be too stiff an arrow, so I dropped from a 2117 aluminum with 225 up front that Steve recommended to a 31" long 0.500 Beeman that I had laying around with about 250 up front. The latter should be way too weak, but I'm still getting riser slap. With a bareshaft I get good, straight flight, and on my first 10 or 15 shots everything looks good, but as I shoot a course when I stop concentrating on my form explicitly, I start to get bad riser slap and porpoising of my arrow. The only thing I can think of is that I am collapsing a lot or short-drawing as I get more tired (52# at my DL is the most I've ever shot and I'm still getting used to it), but when I've had others watch me they don't notice anything obvious with my form when it happens. Some of the shooters at my club suggest raising the nock height, but the bow is tillered 3 under (what I shoot) and nock height is about 9/16ths, which is around what others seem to have for a bow tillered 3 under. Also, I get no nock high or low with a bareshaft, so that doesn't seem to be the issue to me.

[Michael Guran]

I’ve never heard of the Blue Ridge archery Club-thanks for the heads up!  Looks like it’s only about 1.5 hours  away.    It would be great to meet some area trad guys and I’ll definitely try to make the July shoot. 

[Orion]

Joe.  A couple of things to consider. First, you might still be on the edge of your arrow being too stiff. Would be worthwhile to try a 600 shaft.  And/or your brace height may be too low. On a 68-inch ASL, I've found 6 to 6 1/4 inches works pretty well.  Some go much higher.  The higher it is, the less likely you're likely to encounter string slap. If you grip the bow tightly, there's a possibility that you're torquing the riser sideways, which would contribute to string slap.  And, as you note, it may also be partially related to a breakdown in form. 

[UglyJoe]

Joe.  A couple of things to consider. First, you might still be on the edge of your arrow being too stiff. Would be worthwhile to try a 600 shaft.  And/or your brace height may be too low. On a 68-inch ASL, I've found 6 to 6 1/4 inches works pretty well.  Some go much higher.  The higher it is, the less likely you're likely to encounter string slap. If you grip the bow tightly, there's a possibility that you're torquing the riser sideways, which would contribute to string slap.  And, as you note, it may also be partially related to a breakdown in form.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm running my brace height at 6 and 9/16" and I've ran it as high as 7" to see if that might be a problem. Doesn't really change much. I may try a weaker spine arrow, but I don't have any 600s around to check. I do have some uncut 400s that are 33" or 34", so I might throw an insert in those and see what happens. But I really think that it's a form thing. I will probably try and get my son to video each of my shots next time we shoot a round at the club so I can look over it later. I think its most likely a combination of collapsing on the shot, torquing the bow a bit, and shelf being cut outside of center (new for me on this bow) that is causing the issue. I'll be working on that this summer. quite a bit.

Nice thing is, even when the arrow comes out nasty and clearly hits the riser, I'm still hitting what I am looking at more often than not.

[UglyJoe]

I’ve never heard of the Blue Ridge archery Club-thanks for the heads up!  Looks like it’s only about 1.5 hours  away.    It would be great to meet some area trad guys and I’ll definitely try to make the July shoot.

It's a nice club and we would be glad to see you. Mike Treadway (of Treadway bow fame) is a member and a lot of members shoot his bows, which are pretty spectacular. Not ASLs, but still awesome longbows.

[Tom0728]

I joined the club. Hh wapiti. Bamboo cores everything else bacote. Slick bow

[UncasUK]

Tom,

Could you put up some more pictures please.
Riser etc, how many bamboo lams?

[Tim Reese]

Very cool. Never seen that model either and would love to see more pics also

[UncasUK]

Does anyone own a H&H Jaguar, I would love to see any photographs
and a description of how it was made, and are they still produced special order by Craig.

[evgb127]

If I recall, the Jaguar was a limited edition bow with a cocobolo veneer.  I believe it had four lams of bamboo, but I’m not certain. Sadly, the website that used to track this information no longer exists. Only 50 we’re made. 

That said, Craig is great about taking special orders and building custom bows. I’ve seen a few recently where he added an extra center lam of cocobolo.  They looked pretty sharp.

[Tom0728]

Sorry fellas I'm having trouble posting for some reason

[Tom0728]

.

[Tim Reese]

Bacote looks nice on that.

[Baylee]

Does anyone own a H&H Jaguar, I would love to see any photographs
and a description of how it was made, and are they still produced special order by Craig.

I had a Tembo made with the same Rosewood used in the Jaguar. Same carmalized bamboo also. The Jaguar was 4 lams  of carmalized bamboo with a single lam of cocobolo running up the belly side.  I don’t like mixing wood in the lams so I had it made as a Tembo. It’s possible Craig has some of the riser wood left if so he’d be glad to make you a copy of the Jaguar, it just wouldn’t be a numbered limited edition, or I guess it be a limited to one new edition?

[UncasUK]

Baylee, thank you for the reply, what wood did you have for the back of the bow.
i would be interested to know how your Jaguar shoots?
is it strait limbs or backset/stringfollow and by how much.
And is that a Moose leather grip.

[Baylee]

Mine is a Tembo string follow not a Jaguar but it has the same riser wood and bamboo lams. The back of the bow has clear glass same as the belly. I have owned and shot a Jaguar. Like most Hills there ain’t a lot of difference really between each bow.

I’ve shot nothing but ASL style bows for awile now. For most people that switch bows every other day you ain’t gonna notice a difference.. Most get caught up in the riser woods and number of lams mostly the look of the bow. When you have  shot enough ASLs to know the difference you’ll then see the small details that make the differences. For example pretty much every ASL being made Northern Mist, Howard Hill...fill in the blank, are making wide limbed flat bows not true ASLs. If that’s all you shoot and your only interested in the looks I guess it doesn’t matter. Shoot a well made deep narrow limbed ASL with a straight or slightly dished grip and you will then see what an ASL can be.

In my opinion JD Berry is making the best ASL design right now. The limbs are narrow 1” or so narrow grip the limbs are thick in cross section and most  important tapered toward the belly. Pound for pound that design will be faster and way less vibration at the shot. My San Marco is made that way and is the finest shooting ASL I’ve ever shot, but he no longer makes them. The JDBerry I have is a very close second. The Berry Vixen is about a dead in the hand when shot as a bow can be. It has no more thump, recoil or what some call handshock than a 2 pound recurve  bow. And that’s in a bow that doesn’t weigh a pound more like 14 ounces. It will shoot an 8gpp arrow with zero thump. Try  that with a wide limbed flat bow? That’s why you hear people advise 14 gpp arrows for an ASL. Shoot a well made ASL with well timed limbs and see the difference.

For years I was in the same boat. You don’t know what you don’t know. But the fact is the wide flat limbed ASLs are made that way cause it’s easier quicker to build and people keep buying them. Beg borrow or steal one built right and you’ll see what I’m talking about and leave the Jaguar in the jungle lol

[Orion]

B:  Don't know your definition of wide limbed flat bows, but NMs and Hills aren't, IMO.  Yes, J.D.'s bows are about an inch at the fade outs. I have a Vixen and Valor that are, a Taipan that's about 1 1/16 at the fades. Also have a couple of NM Sheltons that are 1 1/8 inch or a tad less at the fades. A couple of Jets I own are close to 1 1/16. I no longer have any Hills, but i don't recall them as being particularly wide either. 

I have seen some ASLs that are 1 1/4 and even a little wider.  I would consider those outside the normal parameters of an ASL, but even then, not of flat bow dimensions, which are in the 1 1/2 to 2-inch widths.

Regardless, I consider all of the bows I mentioned to be quality bows, and given the same design -- straight, backset or string follow-- weight and length, I would be hard pressed to decipher any shooting characteristic differences based on a sixteenth or eight inch limb width difference.