An argument by Howard Hill

[NYArrow]

Howard Hill is no doubt one the most famous hunters/archers of all time. His experience, capability and passion extend beyond what most of us could ever achieve...

Given this, he was of the belief that a straight limbed, heavy weight long bow was far superior to any recurve, reflexed, deflexed or r/d designed bow.

Howard went on to claim his stance was substantiated by various other renowned archers - such as Pope & Young (and 20+ others). He even claimed, "I'm not a good enough shot to shoot a r/d bow". This coming from the guy that drilled an elk at 158 yds and never lost a target match in over 200 appearances!

Obviously times have changed and materials have evolved. In your opinion what is the very best "hunting" bow design / profile? Do you think in the modern era Howard would change his tune? And why a straight limbed long bow to begin with? Why would these men of great achievement all agree on this type of bow over some of our modern day favorites?

[ChuckC]

Remember, HH was selling himself.  There are lots of stories, good and bad about what he did and what he didn't do.  He made and sold certain equipment and his skills.  I think he would have said the above whether or not he actually agreed.  

If we recall interviews, Fred Bear was not very happy with the compound bows, although his company made them and he was "supposed to" talk them up.  He did, then went and shot his favorite recurve.

What kind of bow tends to be used by the Olympic archers ?

We all ask about what is the "best" design, or the best arrow, or the best chair or quiver etc.  Let me ask this. . . what is best, a 1/4" socket or a 1/2 inch socket or  3/4" socket ?  I guess the answer would change as to what is needed (or what you tend to like to use). Our individual needs and tastes are very important in that decision " what is the best".

Good conversation and discussion topic, but keep in mind the rest of the story.
ChuckC

[Sam McMichael]

I don't think Howard would be likely to change his mind regarding style of bow, but I do think he would try some of the newer materials without hesitation.

As a longbow aficionado, he would probably still feel the magic appeal of it. After all, it worked pretty well for him.

[SportHunter]

From my limited experience the quick handling and forgivness of the longbow give it a leg up over most recurve designs in hunting scenarios.

[Jake Fr]

I agree with Chuck its all personal preferance and what we get used to

[Pine]

I have been shooting 50 + years and that has been with a re curve . about 2 years ago I bought a r/d long bow and I can't shoot it any better than my re curve . I will occasionally shoot an arrow hi and left about 8 in. . I just this last weekend bought a Byron Ferguson Safari long bow . It is a very stout flat long bow . I have been shooting it every day this past week and have yet to have the hi left flyer . I had talked with Byron before I bought the bow and he told me that I was torquing the bow and you can't do that with a flat long bow . Well I can't seem to prove him wrong yet . Also my grouping at 20 yds was about 5 in. , now it is about 3 in. until I get tired . So I think that Howard was rite .

[Stumpkiller]

Probably in his hands a "straight limbed, heavy weight long bow was far superior to any recurve, reflexed, deflexed or r/d designed bow" was the case.

I tried a longbow for several years. No venison.  The American flatbows that go by "longbow" now would likely be better.

In my hands a relatively fast recurve at a draw weight I can manage puts more deer in the freezer.  Tried a compound as well and went back to a recurve.  Suits me better.  Your results may vary.

I started as a target archer with recurves and that is what I do best.

[nineworlds9]

If he was that good with a Hill style bow can you imagine what he'd do with a high performance hybrid or r/d longbow?  I think it's 'fun' but maybe not wise to speculate on this topic.  Bow making has come a long way since Howard's time..that being said many of us (see the HH bug thread) still can't help but shoot a couple lams of bamboo glued to a handle with a string and just smile all day long...

[Grey Taylor]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
We all ask about what is the "best" design, or the best arrow, or the best chair or quiver etc.  Let me ask this. . . what is best, a 1/4" socket or a 1/2 inch socket or  3/4" socket ?
ChuckC

I love this allegory.
I get pretty frustrated with people asking for the best broadhead, best string material, best bow, etc.
If there was a "best" do you think all the others would still be on the market?

Guy

[Hud]

I doubt he would change, because it built so many bows himself, until the early 1940's; developed and improved his design, handle and experimented with different materials. After, shooting years, and thousands of arrows he knew where his arrows were going and developed an incredible talent. There was no need to change.

I saw him shoot once after returning from Africa. He was using Easton Alu. in the demo. If you watch some of his videos, you can see how fluid his style was.  

When John Schulz made his video, he used Easton Aluminum, some 25 yrs later. They both realized the consistency in aluminum, but it probably never stopped either from using wood arrows.

"I'm not a good enough shot to shoot a r/d bow".  That is not an accurate quote. He was refering to short, sensitive recurves. Nor was he refering to bows of today. He was, according to John Schulz, very interested in making bows shoot faster and often disappointed in the results. Some of the R/D bows available today are equal in forgiveness and stability with the added bonus of improved speed over the bows that Hill used way back when. I like Hill style bows as much as anyone, but to be objective, there are lots of bows that get the same job done well.  However, in Hill's case it was all about the shooting style and a bow that worked well with his shooting style. In my own experience, I must say that a good R/D bow works just as well with the Hill shooting method as a Hill style bow.

[LB_hntr]

In my uneducated (never me the man) opinion I think Howard hill probably shot a variety of styles of bows here and there and stayed with what worked best for him. I think if he was alive today he would of tried the bow styles available today and again used whatever worked best for him. I think bow choice for him would always be whatever he shoots best for his style. I do believe forgiveness is and was a huge factor.

 We are no different just not as good..lol
We try a variety of bows and pick what works best for us. I think if he was alive today and with the connections he would have, he would of shot any and every style of bow made (obviously not compounds as they would not work for his sytle) to try out and choose to shoot the bow that worked best for what he needed.

[LongStick64]

With so many bowyers and bows being made today, add to that the various styles and aiming techniques we use today, it is an impossible question to get a true answer to. I love longbows and prefer to shoot them and yet I still enjoy shooting certain recurves as well as self bows. If I was to keep score I bet I would score nearly the same no matter what bow I used.

[bicster]

I have been shooting a HH longbow for four or five years now and I also shoot a Black Widow recurve. Between the two of them I have the tightest groups using the recurve and carbon arrows but I have the most fun with my Howard Hill and wood arrows. As far as hunting goes it is a toss up. The HH is light in the hand and wonderful to carry in the woods but I have killed deer with both.

[Bill Carlsen]

Bows today are above and beyond anything Hill had available to him. It would be interesting to hear what he would have to say about what we have to choose from now.

[NYArrow]

My quote was not verbatim - I just finished reading "Hunting the Hard Way" for my third time and was paraphrasing Hill's stance on what he calls "sensitive bows".

His exact words were, "I am not skilled enough to shoot a short recurved bow accurately". However, he went on to elaborate on glass backed bows, recurved bows and various others.

Although times have certainly changed he did have many of the same materials we use today. If you own the book read pg's 86-96 and you will get the argument straight from the horses mouth. With a list of 20+ other archers that agreed. It's interesting none the less.

[two4hooking]

Originally posted by SportHunter:
From my limited experience the quick handling and forgivness of the longbow give it a leg up over most recurve designs in hunting scenarios.

I think Sporthunter nailed this one!  Hill was talking about Hunting situations.  I also believe the same after hunting with recurves for many years and moving to the HIll bow and the style it dictates.  Forgiveness and accuracy under all angles, body positions, and contortions....quick pointing and smooth drawing....fluid.  The man killed quite a few game animals and more than a few were on the move when shot.  stability and forgiveness is key in hunting.

[ron w]

The best bow design or best bow......that's easy. It's the bow you shoot well and have confidence in.

[Kelly]

Most always forget the other important thing HH stressed-one bow, one arrow, one archer forever.

The straight limbed longbow is the only bow design that Howard Hill shot-he learned on it and stayed with it. He was so familair with that equipment that he could tell how many revolutions the fleth on his arrows would make and any given yardage. How many today have any idea of this?

Any bow design shot forever by one person will be way more accurate in their hands.

Too many of us, myself included do not stay with the same bow design yet alone the same manufacturer for years on end-like even 10 years with the same bow, same arrow, same archer.

Any bow design is capable of greater accuracy when shot in a shooting machine than when shot by a archer.

Howard knew the in and outs of his equipment so well because that is all he used throughout his archery career-straight limbed american longbow and wood arrows-all of his equipment was homemade by him.

[swampthing]

Picture this. You are hunting on the ground. There is an unexpected shot presented to you. You have no time to think, no time to guess range, no time to get "all lined up," just time to draw and shoot. Try that with a recurve canted over 45-degreees as you lean from behind a tree, then try it with a Hill. There you answer will be found.
     Then try it with no camo, no face paint, no scent control, no fast flight string, no carbon shafts, just you, a wood arrow, some big feathers, a rope for a bowstring.. on your Hill.
Recurves are pretty fast. D/R bows are too. So is the style of shooting like Hill. Swing up on target, draw back to anchor and you are already to release...  Enjoy.