Newbie to trad......with lots of ?????'s

[jakesdad]

I'm a newbie to the trad. side of archery.Bowhunted for 20 plus years with compounds,but lost interest 3-4 years ago.hard for a compound finger shooter to find equipment to use that doesnt take 3 dozen adjustments to use!!I recently purchased a Samick Sage with 40# limbs,figured i'd start light and go from there.My first question(of many)is what size arrow should I use?I'm wanting to go with the GT traditionals,but the "chart" says go with a 500(3555)but that arrow dynamic calculator says a 600(1535)is about perfect.My draw is 28" im going with a 125gr point if possible.Any and all recommendations/suggestions are appreciated.Very glad to be here and thanks for having me!!

[Amberjack]

Howdy jakesdad and welcome!

Never tried one of those wheelie bows myself, I went the centerfire rifle to flintlock to recurve route myself but regardless of how we got here, glad to have you aboard!

A couple of recommendations for you as a relative newbie myself.
First, if you have a decent trad shop around, let them guide you. There's a lot to getting the 'perfect' arrow combination with the bow you're shooting and online calculators can only get you close.
Second, if you don't have a decent shop nearby, and perhaps just want to figure it out on your own, some retailers will sell you a test kit with arrows of various weights/spines so you can test what works best for you. 3Rivers comes to mind as one of those retailers. They're a sponsor here and have a good reputation. Give 'em a call and I'll bet they can fix you up and get you shooting quickly.

Finally, go ahead and accept that you'll probably tweak your arrows, broadheads, fletching, etc for the rest of your archery days. It's part of the fun!

Best regards,
AJ

[jakesdad]

Amberjack-

Thanks for the welcome!We dont really have a traditional friendly shop here...........all bells and whistles stuff!I do have a friend who has offered to help with setup,tuning,etc. so I at least will have some guidance.I understand the tweaking part..started shooting muzzleloaders(albeit inlines) instead of centerfires about 10 yrs ago because I figured it was "simple"....havent really stopped tweaking those sinc,but it sure is fun!

[ChuckC]

Jakesdad.  welcome to the show.  

Answers will be forthcoming shortly.

ChuckC

[KentuckyTJ]

I think the .600's will work just fine for you at that lenght and head weight. Not sure how the shelf is cut on your Sage but if it is cut past center you will be able to get away with some stiffer shafts if you would like.

Welcome from Kentucky!

[Hot Hap]

Hi there-I'm with K-TJ on your arrows. Hap

[macbow]

Jakes dad,
What part of Missouri?
Lots of trad hunters in the state from end to end.
Location could get you more help.

[jakesdad]

Im from the NE corner,Palmyra area to be exact.I looked it up and the SAGE is cut 3/16" off center.Am I thinking right to go with a stiffer arrow like the 500(3555)?Wouldn't it be easier to weaken an arrow thats too stiff as opposed to strengthing a weaker spined one,or am I totally off in my thinking here?

[Alexander Traditional]

Hello Tim. I was fairly new to carbons here not too long ago,and I found that Carbon Express Heritage arrows were very easy to figure out. If you started with the 90 as they call it I think you would be very close,close enough that if you had a field point test kit you would be able to get them to fly right. I have a 45@ 28" bow and pull around 31" and I'm using the 150 cut to 32" with 215 grains up front and they fly great. I don't know if you could make these work out of a 40 pound bow or not,I just brought it up to give you a reference point. Anyway welcome to Trad Gang  

[LB_hntr]

Welcome Jakesdad!  Lots of great people and amazing advise here.

I also hunt ne Missouri (queen city) each year. Awesome hunting around you.

 Check out my podcast link in my signature. I have only been doing the show for a couple months but almost everything on there is for new trad hunters. You can download them and listen anywhere.

You are going to love traditional bow hunting.
Again welcome aboard.

[jakesdad]

The only reason i'm wanting to use the GT traditionals(other than they look really cool!)is this is what my buddy that is willing to help me uses.He said he really likes the system they use of adding different weight to the front and back of the shafts,made tuning relatively simple.

[JBridegroom22]

Shoot the arrows that your buddy has and see how they fly. I did the same thing, started off with a #40 longbow and used 600s with 125 points cut to 29. How long are your buddy's arrows? If he has a longer draw the 500s cut longer might work for you. Hope you get it figured out.
Josh

[jakesdad]

He uses the 5575 with 170 grain tips out of a 55# Black Widow.Probably be a little stiff for my 40 pounder.

[far rider]

Welcome. You will find many answers here, the ones who know always seem willing to help those of us with MANY questions!

[jakesdad]

Sooooo....after running some numbers thru the spine calculator it seems the 1535 and 3555 will work at 29" and 125 gr point.the insert weight will be a little different.The 5575 will work at 30",150 grain point and same insert and nock weights as the 3555 uses with a 125 grain point.It looks as though either the 3555 or 5575 would work,as I dont plan on shooting 40# forever.hoping to work up to low/mid 50's.I never thought arrow selection could be this hard!!!!

[McDave]

The 3555's will work now, with your 40# Sage, and they will work later on with a 50# bow.   They are probably the most versatile arrow for your needs, right now.  Ideally, you would use the 1535's with your 40# Sage, and really, they're mostly going to get lost or broken anyway, but if you think you'll still have some left or want to use the same arrows with both bows, the 3555's are your best choice.

[30coupe]

Welcome aboard! I have found GTs to run to the stiff side, so you'll probably like the 1535s with a 40 pound bow. Are you sure you draw 28" with a trad bow? You will lose about 1 to 1 1/2" from your compound draw.

You are wise to start with 40#! Way too many folks coming from 60-65# compounds (with 60 to 80% let-off) start with too much bow when they make the switch. I think 40 will be great for getting your form down. It will also poke two holes in whitetails with monotonous regularity. If your arrows are too weak, you can build out the sideplate of your bow by adding leather or by slipping a piece of toothpick under the sideplate. I often do that to fine tune anyway.

Your other option would be to go with the 3555s and leave them full length. My experience with Gold Tips is that 3555s are stiff buggers. Shortening them later should you go up in bow weight would mean you could avoid having to buy new arrows at that time. I've found it much easier to cut a bit off than to add length! If you do start trimming, go VERY slowly. Carbon responds quickly to trimming.

I shoot Beman ICS Bowhunter 500s from my 46 to 50 pound bows and have no trouble with tuning. I like high to extreme FOC, so mine are cut to 28.5" and I shoot a 175 grain point in front of a 100 grain brass insert. Those fly like darts from both my 50# @ 28" Orion recurve and my 46# @ 28" Kanati. I draw just a tad shy of 28". I like for the back of my broadhead to touch my index finger at full draw, which is what I get with this setup.

This gives my 525 grains total arrow weight, 23.25% FOC, and 10.5 grains per pound with my Orion. I do bump the side plate out about 1/16" on the Orion, which makes it possible to shoot the same setup in my Kanati. It likes heavy arrows! I took a nice buck with the Kanati and these arrows using Zwickey Deltas. Complete pass through at 22 yards. He ran about 90 yards and piled up.

Good luck with your outfit and again welcome to the campfire!    

[jakesdad]

30coupe-I shoot 29" draw on compounds so I figured 28" would be close.Stuck a clothespin on a bare alum shaft and drew back on a old recurve and came out 28"to front of the riser every time(+/- 1/4").I may try the 1535s.Could always buy different arrows for a different set of limbs,then i'll have arrows ready for whatever limbs I choose to use.Its just confusing looking at the arrow chart and recommending 400 spine then using the calculator and finding out the 600 spine may work well!You dont think the 600 would be too underspined?I really dont want to shoot a "light" broadhead(less than 125)as i've always had real good luck with the 2 blade magnus

[macbow]

I'd probably choose the 35/55 I shoot them off 47 to 50 pound bows when not shooting bamboo arrows.
If you leave them long you can load them up with weight up front and they really like the high FOC.

Do the guys at Butch's help with trad guys?

[30coupe]

Well, I like to cut my arrows as short as possible. I'm short, my bows are short, and I want my arrows to match. If you plan to hunt with this setup, and I don't see any reason not to if you are proficient with it. I'd shoot whatever you can get tuned the best and have the most confidence in. As I said, I like heavy arrows with lots of FOC. I don't get too hung up on the charts because most, in my opinion, recommend too stiff a shaft. If you can live with a bit longer shaft, I'd probably go with the 3555s. They are a bit under 500 spine, I think, so you will need to point load them some. Don't be overly concerned with speed. By compound standards, all of our bows are slow. However, for thousands of years, they have been fast enough! Make sure your bow is quiet (heavy arrows help that), and that you can hit what you shoot at. Pick a spot and put some venison on the table.

If, at some point, you decide you need more bow weight, by all means go up, but do it a little at a time. If all you are hunting is small game, turkeys, and whitetails, you won't need much more than what you have. I like 45 to 50 pounds. That weight gives me all I need to hunt what I mentioned above. At 60 years of age, I don't really think I'm likely to hunt much else, so I'm happy to stay at this weight as long as I'm able.

Shoot lots and lots of arrows at targets, especially targets of opportunity (stump shooting) to hone your skills and because it is a blast. Have fun because that's what traditional bow hunting is all about.