The 2013 rutting moon phase

[manitou1]

Samples... dangit. Typing on this tiny phone is one big challenge!

[East Coast archer]

Almost everything you guys said seems to coincide with my experience and my guesstimating from what i have been seeing and hearing this year.  I would normally take off the last week in October and the first two weeks in November in a year like this besides hunting every weekend from now on, but unfortunately can't this year, so I hope there is still activity and movement from 11/8 on as that is the only time I can hunt except for a day here or there.  Good luck to everyone    

[Dave Lay]

i killed a 7 pt saturday that was trailing, and saw a good one doing the same as well as a spike dogging a doe, but this is pretty typical this time of the year here, as it is a prelude to the strongest phase which will be in 26 days or so.. i have off most of the week before our gun season on Nov. 9th which may be a little early but i want to beat the onslaught of the orange brigade..and know there will be rut activity going on. I personally really dont want to hunt the breeding time as much as i want to concentrate on the chasing period...

[Ray Lyon]

Dan's spot on above.

[KSdan]

FYI. As typical- went spotlighting last night here in N.E. KS.  Bucks are pretty much together.  Doe family groups separated in other areas away from bucks.  A few dink bucks are starting to looked starry eyed, sparring a bit, walking down the road in front of my vehicle, and a few dinks getting hit on the highways.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by KSdan:
Been keeping journals including night time shining deer for 20 years here in KS.  The peak estrous is virtually the same year to year.

When anyone says the "rut" they need to define it.  If we mean the peak estrous- when 80% of the does are bred- it really is simple to figure.  Look at deer structure and birthing dates in certain areas of the country- they are consistent from year to year.  Gestation is fixed!  That means in a given area the MAJORITY of does were bred (thus in estrous) the same time virtually every year.  With that said there are certainly variables such as pressure, weather fronts, crop harvest, doe-buck ratio. . .  all that affects MOVEMENT- but peak estrous (when most of the does come in) is virtually the same exact time every year- give or take a couple of days.

To zero in on the peak days of November all you need to is watch for the first estrous in the third week of October.  It is amazingly simple by shining deer at night.  I watch various doe family groups feeding all fall.  Then in those magic days of October- you will see a mature buck or two showing up with the doe family groups.  The bucks will be with them for a few days- then poof!  The bucks are gone again.  Now- just plot out 28 days from there and you have peak estrous.  

Peak estrous may NOT be the best time to hunt.  It all depends what you are looking for.  For my NR friends who want to see lots of activity and may be content with that 3 year 125-130ish buck, this peak estrous week can be a great time.  

However, if you want the really mature buck, peak can be pretty difficult.  The Big Boys have the estrous does locked down in some out of the way place. I find the week before peak estrous and the week after are prime for Big mature buck sightings and vulnerability.  I really like that back end week where there are still a few does coming in and the Big Boys are on the prowl looking for them.  Its usually colder, less activity, and you are feeling like you missed it. . . then the bruiser shows up!

I find telling guys this stuff always seems kind of weird for me because I surely am not the guy making money writing books and articles.  And for sure, someone will have a story where it was different for them.  But remember, you could be 400 yds from an estrous doe and think every thing is done, dead, or some "trickle" thing.  While the guy 400 yds over the hill from you is having the greatest day of his life.  YOUR experience in the woods does not define the rut, estrous, gestation, or any other factual evidence.  

The ENTIRE MONTH of November is awesome here in the midwest. Perhaps the moon helps determine "some" feeding patterns- but the estrous is the estrous!  You just have to plan on the peak of estrous then work around that considering variables for movement like weather, crops, etc.

Take it for what it is worth.  Probably 2C.

Oh yea- based on 20 years of watching this- this week should be that first short flurry of estrous.  I will be out shining again!  Let you know what I see. . .    guessing 28 days from October 23rd will be the peak week around here.  

Dan in KS

This is an interesting discussion, KS. The research by Alsheimer suggests otherwise. His very detailed research indicates that rut, and by this I mean the initiation of estrus in does, occurs on the second full moon following the autumnal equinox. It has long been believed that does come into estrus at the same time each fall, the first two weeks of November. Alsheimer's study turns that theory on its head. If we are evaluating the presence of fawn born or the presence of a fawn in the uterus, how can we know when they were bred? With an approximate 6 month gestation period, how would a person know if the fawns born in late April were from a November 10th estrus doe versus fawns born in mid May, which were from an estrus doe bred November 29th?

You're correct. Defining the rut is important because there are three phases to deer rutting behavior. Alsheimer defines the moon cycle previously mentioned as the initiation of estrus in does. The reason this is important to note is that the classic seeking/chasing behavior in bucks (hard chasing) occurs a few days prior to this moon cycle or the initiation of the estrus cycle in does, as I understand it. The ability to predict this time frame is the key (obviously) to the hunters ability to hunt that magic few days when deer are running crazy in the woods.

As this research continues and the mysteries of what actually causes the rut to begin are unraveled, the beliefs of hunters may or may not accept the scientific theory on this subject. Either way, I find this subject fascinating.

Best of luck to all!

[Dave Lay]

Dan in KS [/qb][/QUOTE]This is an interesting discussion, KS. The research by Alsheimer suggests otherwise. His very detailed research indicates that rut, and by this I mean the initiation of estrus in does, occurs on the second full moon following the autumnal equinox. It has long been believed that does come into estrus at the same time each fall, the first two weeks of November. Alsheimer's study turns that theory on its head. If we are evaluating the presence of fawn born or the presence of a fawn in the uterus, how can we know when they were bred? With an approximate 6 month gestation period, how would a person know if the fawns born in late April were from a November 10th estrus doe versus fawns born in mid May, which were from an estrus doe bred November 29th?

You're correct. Defining the rut is important because there are three phases to deer rutting behavior. Alsheimer defines the moon cycle previously mentioned as the initiation of estrus in does. The reason this is important to note is that the classic seeking/chasing behavior in bucks (hard chasing) occurs a few days prior to this moon cycle or the initiation of the estrus cycle in does, as I understand it. The ability to predict this time frame is the key (obviously) to the hunters ability to hunt that magic few days when deer are running crazy in the woods.

As this research continues and the mysteries of what actually causes the rut to begin are unraveled, the beliefs of hunters may or may not accept the scientific theory on this subject. Either way, I find this subject fascinating.

Best of luck to all! [/QB][/QUOTE]


good stuff!

[KSdan]

Dennis- I will continue to learn as well. Really- I could be wrong.  AND I mean that!  I just see so much modern hoopla on every hunting site that just does not add up to me.  

I might be missing your point. If you look at gestation studies from a given area- given 100% of the fetuses studied- you will find some peak date/week when the majority were conceived. Compared over ten years, the peak or height of the bell-shaped curve is very typical year to year in a given area.  For example- I will be in NE North Dakota next week.  Those deer peak the last week of Nov. It is the same every year.  And fact is- if those deer do get bred earlier the fawns drop too early and die in the typical drawn out winter (It can be brutal in NE ND).  The adaptation assures that the peak of doe breeding is late Nov. for survival in later Spring.  So, in that region- if the moon studies held- the does would get bred too early and there would be no fawns surviving.  

I agree there are does being bred from the third week of Oct right on through the end of Nov.  That is why its called a "bell shaped curve."  Gestation studies show this.  However, the problem is that this discussion gets anecdotal as far as our experiences in the woods (and why there is money made very year as someone is bound to have an experience that supposedly substantiates the prediction!)  There are so many variables and individual experiences that depend on a region of the country, the hunter being in the right place, right time, the doe-buck ratio, weather fronts etc.  I can have a friend 1/2 mile from me seeing deer every 15 minutes all day.  At the same time I am seeing nothing.  A few days later it can be absolutely reversed.

I have observed the same reality in my area for the past 20 years. Somewhere between Nov 10 and 20 will be the peak of curve with 3-4 days on each side. I have no idea if a particular doe I know about will come in on Nov 12 or Nov 16.  I can only hunt one or two doe family groups on any given day.  If fawns show up without momma for a few days I know when she came into estrous (I see this both in the woods and in my nighttime spotlighting).  Mark it down!  My journals are amazingly consistent from year to year.  

Good Hunting
Dan- still in KS !  

[Blackhawk]

Interesting and informative posts!

I was in the woods here in northeast WA from Oct 16-20, and saw little whitetail activity, BUT I found a series of fresh scrapes made during Friday night's full moon.

[longbow fanatic 1]

KSdan, Great points! Your dedication and observations over the past 20 years are certainly compelling! Keep me posted on what you're seeing as the rut closes in. I'm very interested in your insights. Also, great observations about the deer breeding cycle in NE ND. Intriguing!

[pamike]

Great info. Can't wait to hit the woods and see for myself what is going on here in the east.

[r-man]

If you believe that non sence you will miss the best hunting in the south, ruts a banging away, deer around me go back to there holes and disapear in first of nov

[JMG]

What may work for one person, may not work for another person r-man. Here on Tradgang I value and respect "everybody's" input as well as experience on any given topic. I haven't been here on Tradgang that long but I have truly learned a lot as well as made some good friends that have done nothing but help me in my quest for knowledge in relation to traditional archery. And I can assure you the friends that I made here and the things that I learned did not come from being abrasive or rude. Just my experience and observation.

[doug77]

X2 JMG

doug77

[fujimo]

wow R-man!
I see quite a few of your postings around the forum are a tad rough eh!
a little tolerance sure goes a long way- great, helpful people here!!

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by r-man:
If you believe that non sence you will miss the best hunting in the south, ruts a banging away, deer around me go back to there holes and disapear in first of nov

r-man,  In the south, you're below the 37th parallel. This information does not apply to people living there. As you probably know, the rut cycle varies from north to south.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by JMG:
What may work for one person, may not work for another person r-man. Here on Tradgang I value and respect "everybody's" input as well as experience on any given topic. I haven't been here on Tradgang that long but I have truly learned a lot as well as made some good friends that have done nothing but help me in my quest for knowledge in relation to traditional archery. And I can assure you the friends that I made here and the things that I learned did not come from being abrasive or rude. Just my experience and observation.

Well said, JMG    

[KSdan]

Back to the discussion. . . .Check out this Texas gestation/rut study.  Scroll down to the "Rut by Geographic Region"  Fascinating read with peak estrous dates per region. Make sure you click on the Breeding Chart for each region.  See the bell-shaped curves.  South-north-moon-weather etc. had little influence.  Interesting that these peak trends have been consistent for many years.  This has been my experience in KS, ND, and other areas of the midwest.  It is very regional and consistent.  

   http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/planning/rut_whitetailed_deer/

[Pheonixarcher]

All information, opinions, and arguments aside, I find it quite interesting that a doe that is not bred during her first estrous cycle will come back into heat approximately 28 days later. The same cycle as the moon! Hmmm....

[DWT]

Here in Michigan over the last week someone shut the faucet off, I have seen no deer the last 5 sits. I think they are staying in the heavy cover right now as due to a heavy mast crop they don't have to come out. The maple leaves are dropping like crazy also and I know these and other species are loved by deer. I raked up seven loader buckets of crabapples out of my yard this past weekend and dumped them in other areas on my property mostly so they didn't rot in my yard. Hopefully the bigger deer will start to move in a couple weeks, I have seen one 145 tenpoint late one morning and have several pics of real good deer so they are here just laying low.