HIll style vs. R/D longbow performance ?

[toby]

False Cast,

I would normally agree, draw length is a huge factor, but my original question only concerns the comparison of Hill style vs. r/d bows, at equal draw lengths.

Toby

[nineworlds9]

To touch on original question no Hill bow I have ever shot has had the same cast as a comparable weight well made r/d bow.  If you go with an aggressive r/d or hybrid forget about it.  Upping poundage with a lower gpp arrow on a Hill will compensate.  I dunno about the rest of us, but I don't shoot a Hill style because of the performance.  I shoot one for the smooth draw and because they are Q U I E T.

[two4hooking]

Today, fast is in, but in my opinion it only allows you to miss at greater speed. - John Schulz

[Looper]

Originally posted by False Cast:
Draw length plays a HUGE factor in determining whether or not your bow produces acceptable energy for an ethical harvest of your quarry. 45# @ a true 30" draw length throws an arrow (of the same weight) SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a 45# @ 26" draw length.

It amazes me when so many archers say "XX pounds is enough" without ever considering draw length!

You are right, a longer draw length is a decided advantage, but I can assure you that even 45@26 in a Hill style bow is more than sufficient for any deer. Heck, when I was a kid, I shot plenty of deer and hogs with a hickory self bow that was a lot slower than any Hill.

My main hunting bow is a [email protected] Hill. A buddy of mine shoots an r/d bow that is 54@27. If he shoots my arrow out of his bow, it is noticeably slower than it is out of my bow.

[toby]

Looking for advice here. I draw 29.25" and comfortable shooting up to 46-47 #'s. I hunt deer, and elk a little. So, what style Hill would you recommend for me. I know there are a lot of different styles, just wondering which one would suit my needs the best.

Thanks
Toby

[nineworlds9]

Originally posted by two4hooking:
Today, fast is in, but in my opinion it only allows you to miss at greater speed. - John Schulz

Love it!

toby, if you are shooting a recurve with a straight arm and a deep grip, you may find that with a straight gripped Hill style bow that you will settle into a shorter draw with a bent arm and lose some of your draw length. I have found that lots of guys have a bit of left/right variances when they attempt to have a maximum strecthed out draw with a Hill style bow and then claim that they are better shots with their recurves. If power is an issue, the standard JD Berry, by many opinions is shooting a fairly qucik arrow. If you want to maintain a straighter arm the JD Berry Taipan would also be a worthy consideration. About Hill bows shooting a faster heavy arrow and an r/d shooting a faster lighter arrow. I have never ever seen that. My expeience over the past 50 years of bow hunting mostly with Hill style bows, a few really nice recurves and lately r/d bows, shows that while a Hill style bow with heavy limbs does not have as much variation with arrow weight changes, they never actually pass up a fast bow when the arrow weight goes up to reasonable weights. I am not about to fletch up a steel fence post to see if that changes, however. It is more likely that if you come across a Hill style bow and a recurve and an r/d bow that shoot a super heavy arrow about the same speed, you may very likely find that the other bows will shoot a lighter arrow faster than the Hill style bow. The catch 22 with longbows and wood arrows is that when weight goes way up the spine goes up with it, Hill style bows really like wood arrows and Hill style bows quite often prefer a softer spined arrow than a recurve.  What is left to decide is simply what bow you like and what bow you can shoot the most accurately. I don't really think you have to worry about power. I know of a fellow with a 51 pound Schulz with a 26" draw that shot 5 elk and got either pass throughs or complete penetration on all 5 with standard cedar arrows. Any good standard longbow, as the ones mentioned above, with a 28" or over draw will have more power at 47 pounds than even a fast 51 pound Schulz at 26 inches.

[Bud B.]

Originally posted by toby:
Looking for advice here. I draw 29.25" and comfortable shooting up to 46-47 #'s. I hunt deer, and elk a little. So, what style Hill would you recommend for me. I know there are a lot of different styles, just wondering which one would suit my needs the best.

Thanks
Toby

Take a look at a Dave Johnson American Semi-Longbow.

I own 6 Hill styles of various makers. All are very good bows. Dave's is the lightest and for its weight throws a better cast. Actually the best cast. It is backset. Four of the others are string follow. The other backset bow is a 72# Howard Hill Archery bow that is a beast. You really can't compare a 72# bow to a 47# bow but if shooting 10gpp then it is somewhat an equalizer.

Having said that, I love shooting ALL of them. I do own a 54# RD bow and sold a 40# RD bow and traded a 62# RD bow for a semi-longbow string follow Northern Mist Shelton. I do believe that the RD bow has an edge of performance pound for pound and length for length but the semi-longbow is my weakness at this time in my traditional journey.

If it's stick and string, it's the only thing. You can't go wrong either way.

[Brianlocal3]

For a "style" of straightlimbed bow I'd suggest backset as opposed to stringfollow.  Now if we are talking "makes and models" I'd say take a good look at a JD Berry Vixen. I think you will be very pleased.

[Bud B.]

Originally posted by Brianlocal3:
For a "style" of straightlimbed bow I'd suggest backset as opposed to stringfollow.  Now if we are talking "makes and models" I'd say take a good look at a JD Berry Vixen. I think you will be very pleased.

Now that I own a Shelton a Vixen is my next target, I think. You never know what bow might pop up and present an opportunity.

The addiction will not stop. My Bears are jealous.

[toby]

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of this to me. I can sense the attraction many of you have for your bows and greatly appreciate it. I am almost afraid I'll "catch the fever", just as afraid I won't:)

Toby

[Rossco7002]

You will. You will. BWAHAHA!!!

Take the time to learn them and the reward is hard to describe but oh SO addictive!

[Brianlocal3]

Dont be afraid, come on in!!! There are warm cookies and hot coco waiting. HA HA

[Fanto]

can i suggest you read this:

 http://www.tuffhead.com/ashby_pdfs/ashby%20ours/2007%20Update,%20Part%204.pdf

In very, very short: a 54# straight laid longbow was used to test arrow penetration on an adult water buffalo. with standard type 540grain arrows, none penetrated the rib and averaged only 5". Move to 725gr arrows, single bevel heads, and consistent rib penetration was achieved, about 10". then go to 25% FOC at 725grs, average penetration 14".


the arrow construction you choose will have a huge effect on the leathality of the shot.

luckily, at sugh a low draw weight its really easy to built Extreme FOC arrows. here is a recipe for you:

GT ultralight 3555 or 5575 depending on length you need.

brass insert 100gr
steel BH adapter 125gr
tusker concorde 190gr or Grizzly 190gr broadhead

FOC : about 30%
weight : about 650gr.

[Brock]

I have never bought a bow, arrows, shafts, broadheads, etc for speed.

I usually buy because I liked the way they looked and felt in my hand...and then if they shot good I bought it.

I have straight limbed bow and also r/d (noble vs mohawk)....and i think the mohawk is a little faster but not much.  Dont really care though...to be honest.

My Keep It Simple longbow that is extreme r/d...is nearly as fast as couple of my recurves...maybe 10fps slower.  I only know as I was testing this bow style for Lee and he asked me to chrono it against my Jeffery Royal Hunter (1991), Habu Bushmaster (1997), Noble Longbow (1996) and Browning Wasp (1970).....the KISA r/d longbow Lee built was faster than all of them except my Habu.  Then again it was pretty extreme r/d design in my opinion...

[Fanto]

Originally posted by toby:
70-80#'s is a lot more weight than I can manage.

And, it's not that I am concerned with speed, performance would have been a better word.

I am not doubting anyone's experience, I just don't understand how a Hill bow can shoot a heavier arrow faster than an r/d bow and yet that same r/d bow can shoot a lighter arrow faster than a Hill.

I find all of this very interesting, and am just trying to learn more about all types of bows.

on the subject of relative performance at different arrow weight, i was reading the ACS site. I shoot a Cari-bow slynx which is an extreme d/r longbow. Pete ward has tested both the caribow and the ACS bows.

The ACS shoots a 9gpp arrow faster, by about 5fps, but by 13gpp ACS has lost its advantage over the caribow and both shoot the same (within a fps) not to in any way knock the ACS, by all accounts some of the best bows ever made by humankind.

[arrow flynn]

jd berry builds a very efficient d bow I will have to chronograph it.i have a hybrid of the same weight and its only a bit faster.

[Nativestranger]

Not an expert or bowyer by any means but AFAIK a bows stored energy and efficiency determines arrow speed. A design with more more stored energy but lower efficiency tend to perform better with heavy arrows. RD hybrid bow tend to have curvy limbs that are lighter in mass. They store more energy and are more efficient than hill style bows. So they should perform better at the same draw weight with both light and heavy arrows.

[John Nail]

I own a 68" Northern mist whisper and a 64" 3-piece pronghorn--both weigh exactly 53lbs @28. Both shoot 2016 aluminums. The r/d pronghorn is exactly 10fps faster. Quieter also.
Hope this helps

[toby]

Thanks John, I find it interesting that the Pronghorn is quieter. That is an excellent comparison as far as speed goes.
Toby