730gr upfront. do you think i'll get it to fly? tuning under way now

[Wetfeet]

I assume Buffalo hunting is a ground attack at 20+ yds. That being said it may be a tough shot. Early season I shoot out of a tree with a 1050gn 28in 2117, about a 300gn grizzly, 100gn brass insert,a 3in 1/8th in internal Brass rod screwed in the back of the insert. I use  a rubber hose to slip over the rod to keep it from rattling. My bow is a 61lb\\27in R/D LB. Shooting from a elevated position I do not see much drop in it.  On the ground during the rut I scale back to 750gn arrow.
  The 1050gn  drops like a dead goose after about 18yds, however in that first 15 nothing is stopping it. From a tree its no problem. But your going to be on the ground. For me shooting from the ground with the 750 @ 20yds is about the same as 18 ft up with the 1050gn. Your 70 lb bow you may not see such a change, but it will definitely be an adjustment from a lighter setup.  

If you can hit your target go for it. I would not worry about speed/KE. I think we are far from running into diminishing returns at 1000gns and heavy bows. Natives have been using lighter bows with heavier arrows for thousands of years with no issues.
I used to use a similar setup to yours with beman MFXs, alum footted with oak dowels jbwelded inside. I switched to alum and brass for more flexibility in tuning. With the brass rods it is easier to trim to get the best flight. However your carbons can most likely deal with hard impacts during practice better than alum. I'd jbweld or epoxy your stuff in after you found your best setup or they will come loose. Keep in mind you will have way more KE than your average arrow.

[ozy clint]

OK, so i started tuning today.
arrow is axis 300. 300gr tuffhead on my 360gr adapter. 2016 footing 6 3/4" long. 730gr total upfront.
started at full length and started trimming. seems to show weak. (flecthed BH vs bareshaft)
but as usual when i try to tune i couldn't seem to make any improvement to BH arrow flight. fishtailing most of the time. i'm down to 31.5" arrow length now. note the footing reduces flexible portion of shaft to 24 3/4".
still seems to indicate weak.

i noticed the strike plate is copping alot of wear. is it possible i could be getting a false weak reading and that infact they could be too stiff and getting worse with trimming?

i'm thinking of trying a 340 axis and see what happens.

FYI- i tried shooting a 400 axis with 350gr upfront at 30 1/4" long and they fly quite well. better than the 300 setup anyway. this suggests to me that for whatever reason i just need weaker arrows than everyone seems to recommend regardless of what bow i'm trying to setup.

it seems i'm back to the frustration and randomness of tuning. i can make changes and see no difference, always. i just never know what to change. if i could makes changes to arrows and see the difference in flight i would be one happy archer. tuning always seems to feel like i'm bumbling around in the dark.

BTW, this arrow weighs just under 1100gr and is doing 150fps. come on baby just tune!!!

[ozy clint]

[ChuckC]

go get em Clint

I hate arrow tuning, for some of those same reasons.

CHuckC

[Looper]

I suspect you're going to need to have more weight distributed throughout the arrow shaft and not all on the front end.

Did you have one of those shafts tuned before, without the 360 grain insert and the footing?

[ozy clint]

looper- this is a new bow. i haven't had any arrow tuned to it yet.

[Friend]

Tuning has often provided some frustration and much fulfillment when accomplished.

Velcro is cheap and is my choice for my final set-up.

Based on an arrow tuned utilizing a Velcro side plate:
You may wish to consider replacing the side plate with a Martin Pad to possibly move your arrows up to ~4"s right and a leather pad to possibly move your arrows up to ~4"s left. These simple tests may reveal a more transparent view of what you have been experiencing.

Note: You had previously mentioned excessive side plate wear. If the wear on the side plate is behind the rest toward the string, then the shaft is too stiff. If the wear on the side plate is in front of the rest, then the shaft is too weak.

[jrchambers]

I would say they should be stiff with the footing you are really shooting a 25 inch shaft with a 7 inch head,
have you thought about a arrow dynamic with a internal foot?  the taper might help

[jerry womble]

Ozy, I have some xx75 shafts made by Easton for Futura Archery
some years back. They are 24/40's that weigh 980 gr with a length
of 33 1/4". They came with the Black Forrest camo and used a uni-nock. I do not have any of these nocks or bushings for them.

Jerry

[ozy clint]

the strike plate only contacts the arrow directly above the deepest part of the grip. The spot where it touches is only 1/8" wide. Bad wear there.   Jrchambers nailed it. Thats exactly what it is, 25" 300 shaft with a 7" long 730gr point. I'm even more convinced that 340 shafts are what i need.

[elkbreath]

Oz, I think youre starting to see what I have run into also.  Ive ran a similar set up, ended up shaving the internal footing down to about 3 inches then taper... They were just too stiff with that long of a taper.  I hope this helps!

keep up with the tuning!  you'll learn alot about your setup and its worth it.  

Good luck!

[Looper]

I think I'd work up a normal arrow first.  Something in the 12 gpp range to start out.  That should put you right around 800 grains. Some 8 gpi weight tubes would put you over 1000 grains.  

I just measured up a GT 7595 (.300 spine)

A 28" with 4x4 fletch, 100 grain insert, 1" alum footing weighs 430 grains. Add the 300 grain head, 100 adapter brings it up to 830 grains. A 8 gpi weight tube would put you close to 1040 grains.

I just get the feeling that that 360 adapter is really going to screw with your tuning.

[ozy clint]

if it is the case that i need a weaker shaft its been a real eye opener to how stiff carbons really are and how much point loading they can tolerate.

[Looper]

Yeah, maybe so. Do you have any 5575s lying around?

I just reread an article you wrote in Traditional Bowhunter about your water buff hunting. Did you still have that arrow combination you wrote about? I think it was some 7595s and a conglomeration of inserts. I'm just wondering how that arrow would fly out of your current bow.

[Fanto]

Originally posted by ozy clint:
if it is the case that i need a weaker shaft its been a real eye opener to how stiff carbons really are and how much point loading they can tolerate.

Clint i have come to this realisation.

Ive got a Martin hunter, 60#, 3/16 past centre. should need dynamic spine 85# approx.

I made some 7595s trads, 30" long with 375gr up front. dynamic spine by the calculators: 48# approx

bareshaft and paper Result: stiff. no amount of weight seems to weaken the 7595 to tune them to this bow.

i switched to 29" 5575. 220 up front. dynamic spine 57#. they are pretty well spot on, a touch weak.

So stu miller's calculator is not accurate for carbon with EFOC or UEFOC

[ozy clint]

i don't have any of those arrows here. I'm moving away from the way they are constructed. Yes i've shot 2 buff with them but last year i had one break behind the insert on the ribs of a bull. Perfect placement on a broadside bull at 15 yards. Like doc ashby says, without 100% structural integrity nothing else matters. This is the path i'm on now. That setup is what looper is saying. Been there done that. Weaker arrows are my next destination.

[ozy clint]

hey looper, do you mean the trad archers world magazine for that buff article? Traditional bowhunter wasn't interested in it.

[Looper]

Yeah, maybe that was it. Great article. You might end up needing those Goldtip Heavyweights. I think they are substantially stronger than the regular GT Traditionals.

[jrchambers]

oz have you ever looked at griz sticks?  I don't think you would have to put a footing in one of those. the only one ive ever seen break was chinnook907 saying watch this into a bunch of boulders hahah

[BuckeyeGuy]

Ozy, instead of having so much FOC could you use a heavy hunter gold tip shaft (320) and load up from there?  Between the arrow and your 300 tuff head you would be at 750 grains without doing anything else.  A brass insert and weight tubes and you are over 1000 grains quickly.  Just thinking out loud but I would imagine its hell trying to get that arrow to tune.