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Author Topic: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?  (Read 583 times)

Offline knot klipper

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New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« on: September 11, 2007, 08:13:00 AM »
Here's my background.  I'm an experienced Whitetail deer hunter living in SW NY state.  I've been hunting with a single shot TC Encore for the past 6 years and use it for rifle/shotgun/ML by changing barrels.  I have two wall mount bucks that were both one shot kills and the time is right to move on to archery.  Other than shooting bows a couple of times, I have NO experience with archery.  None.

I want to go the traditional route and plan on practing for a full year before actually hunting.  Bought one of those rubber band things to strengthen the arm and plan on taking this very serious.  Really like the Black Widow and narrowed selection down to Recurve PSR II and PSR V bows.  I would appreciate opinions and help with some questions:

1) Draw weight.  Minimum for deer?  I'll be using this bow for whitetail only.  I prefer lower weight draw and I think NY has a 40# minimum.  I was thinking about going with a 50#.  Too much?  Too little?  Just right?  I really plan on practicing before I hunt and practice the "Let it walk" principle if the shot is not ideal.  I've done it many times with gun hunting.

2) Ironwood or Birch?  Worth the extra money?  Plan on using this for as long as I can pull the string.  Really only want to buy one bow.  Takedown or One piece?  

3) accesories.  Quivers.  Attached or detached? Hip or Shoulder?  I'm leaning towards a detached quiver.  Opinions on this one very important to me.

4) Gloves.  Do you use a release with rucurves?  Sites or insinctive?  Any other essential accessories?  I don't want a lot of bells and whistles, just the basics.

5) reading material or DVD suggestions for a beginner?

Again, I really plan on practicing and would appreciate all your opinions .  Thanks for taking the time to answer questions from a rank amateur.

Offline heartshoth

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 09:27:00 AM »
you'll love the psr, i have 2, consider the take down just in case you travel, t/d shoots just like my one piece, i have a psr 2 and an ironwood, i think the ironwood hits harder but it is just my feeling, have you tried their bow trial program?  it's worth doing.  as for the rest of your questions i'll let your trial and error take over and the experts here take care of you.  pm me with any other questions on the psr
BLACK WIDOW PSR X 2
KEMPF QWYKSTYK  X 2
Zipper SXT

Offline R H Clark

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 09:28:00 AM »
Knot Klipper
Hello and welcome to the forum.A traditional bow is a little like a pair of shoes.Not everyone will need the same kind.Different ones for different applications and not one size fits all.

The best advice I can give you is to find a Traditional club in your area and shoot with them a lot before you buy a bow.It will take you some time to find out what you like or don't like in a bow.You also need to learn what bow will fit you and your hunting style.

The Widow is a fine bow but a couple of points first.You will need to start with a very light draw if you want to learn good form without getting bad habits.A take down would let you use light limbs to learn then get heavyer limbs later.However with a Widow that would be a lot of money for limbs you wouldn't need after the first year.

I would suggest a cheap $100-$150 recurve about 35 pounds to learn on.After you shoot it a while and every other bow you can get your hands on you will know a lot more about what you need in a bow.

Good luck
Randy

Offline Shape Shifter

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 09:38:00 AM »
Before purchasing a bow, I would definitely  go to a traditional shop or club and shoot a recurve in some different weights to see what weight you can shoot accurately. Different bows have different grips. Some you will like and some you may hate. Blackwidow makes some great bows, but I would start with something a little less pricy to start with and gain confidence in your shooting skill then make the big move the widow.
"Effort only fully releases its rewards after a person refuses to quit"

Offline Crash

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 09:43:00 AM »
You should be able to handle 50 lbs and it is enough bow for deer with a properly tuned arrow and sharp broadhead.

Ironwood bows have a bamboo core which in some models gives you a few feet per second more in arrow speed.  Some feel that it also smooths out the draw a little.  Bow will be smooth drawing though.

Bow quivers are handy, there's no other way to describe them.  I normally use them, but also have a hip quiver and a side quiver depending on the situation.

A glove or a tab, another personal decision.  I started with a tab and switched to a glove.

Fred Asbell wrote a couple of books called Instictive Shooting.  A good DVD is Masters of the Barebow.  It gives many different views and opinions on shooting without sights.  

Have fun and enjoy the journey.  It is a blast.
"Instinctive archery is all about possibilities.  Mechanist archery is all about alternatives. "  Dean Torges

Offline Tom Leemans

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 10:50:00 AM »
First things first. The equipment does not the hunting archer make. Hunting skills aside, it is nothing like going out and buying a rifle and sighting it in, and now go get your deer, etc. Archery requires practice, and lots of it. BW makes mighty fine bows, but I'd follow the advice given. Get a less expensive bow or go where you can try out several bows. Learn good form and build muscle memory. Learn what it takes to be deadly accurate before plunking down a big chunk of change on a custom bow.
Got wood? - Tom

Offline knot klipper

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 11:43:00 AM »
Sounds like good advice.  I'll get one from **** or something and try it out first.  How do you measure for draw length?  Thanks.

Offline knot klipper

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 11:52:00 AM »
There are many available on e bay selling for under $100.  Any brand suggestions to look for?  any to avoid?  I like the look of the shorter recurves .  I want to get one similar in size and draw weight to the Black Widow bow.

Offline thp

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 12:01:00 PM »
big helps and tools for the new guy on this website:

  classified section(save yourself some major dough.  I've done a little bit trading, selling and buying here.  Never had a bad deal.)
  search  (see what people have been saying about any bow or bowyer in question)
  the shooters forum  (man, there are some great shooters here... lots of great advice)
Be kind and merciful. Let no one ever come to you without coming away better and happier. -Mother Teresa

Offline Schlechdee

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 12:10:00 PM »
The Samick Hawkeye is a copy of the black widow Takedowns for much less Money. But my recomendation as  others said before  : Find a club or an experienced archer where you can try some bows and where you have somebody watching you and telling you what you make wrong. Its almost impossible to learn how to shoot a bow without feedback from more experienced archers.
We´re not in this world to be like others want uns to be.

Offline Tom Leemans

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 01:34:00 PM »
Put the tip of a yardstick against your chest and hold the other end between the fingertips of your outstretched hands. Where the tips of your middle fingers touch the yardstick is your estimated draw length. Most production bows are tillered to 28" though, so you'd be alright, unless you're a tall lanky fella with long arms.
Got wood? - Tom

Offline Bird Dog

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 02:26:00 PM »
thp is right. Save some money and buy your first bow from the classifieds. There are a lot of great bows listed for under $500. 45 to 50 lbs is a good place to start. I've found that some really short bows are difficult to shoot (just my opinion) so I wouldn't go below 58 inches.

Offline knot klipper

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2007, 03:53:00 PM »
I can't find any traditional archery clubs in the Western NY area.  Can't even find a traditional archery shop either.  It's all compund bows around here.  I guess I'll be learning from video and books plus the fine people on this forum.  

Checked out a used Fred BEar Kodiak bow at local store today.  Real short at 52" with 45# draw.  Seemed a little too short for my liking.  Liked the feel of it tough.  They were asking a $100 for it.  it had a patent date of 1953 and it was made in Michigan I think.  Is this about what one should pay for such a bow?

Offline R H Clark

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2007, 03:54:00 PM »
After you get your draw length you can decide better what length bow you want.I personally don't like bows shorter than 60".If your draw is 28" or under a 60" bow should be fine.Longer draws need longer bows.IMO shorter bows are only better if you hunt in heavy brush or from a blind where a shorter bow will give you more clearance.

I would post an ad in the classifieds here when you decide what you want.I've seen bows on E bay strung backwards.Who knows what you might get.Most of the people here know bows and how to handle and ship them.You should be able to find something under $200 easy.Check out old posts by whoever you deal with and talk to them on the phone if possible.When you have an offer ask questions about the bow and search old posts for opinions.

Ask all the questions you want.Folks here love to help a guy get started.

Offline doctorbrady

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2007, 04:27:00 PM »
knot klipper,
You will find a lot of great advice on this site.  There is already a bunch of it above.
Traditional bowhunting, as said above, isn't a point and click sort of sport, and from your post it seems you already understand that.  That said, with good instruction and a couple of months of practice you could be worlds ahead of many of the guys that have been shooting...dare I say...for decades.
Before you think about equipment, think about how you want to learn to shoot.  Doing it from videos is fine.  Learning from others may hurt you or help you depending upon who you get your instruction fromm  My advice, go to a local shoot or club.  Watch the guys who shoot the best at the targets and ask them for some basic tips.  Another alternative is to contact a professional who gives instruction.  There are quite a number of them.  I recommend Rick Welch who is a 39 time U.S. and World Champion shooter and a great teacher, and he does it for CHEAP.  If need be save a few hundred dollars on the bow and use it for instruction.  It will go a longer way toward making you a better, and less frustrated, traditional bowhunter.
As far as equipment goes, the guys at BW are first rate, and so are their bows.  That said, I would spend a little less cash than that until I figured out if I liked traditional bowhunting enough to stick with it.  I would also shoot every bow I could get my hands on in the beginning until I got a feel for what I liked. Then shop the classifieds on this site.  There are a bunch of good bows on here at any given time.
Weight wise, 40-45# is a safe start for most guys.  This will kill any whitetail in the country.  It may not be your "one and only" bow, however if you want to chase elk or moose where a bow in the 50's is more appropriate.  The truth is, if you like traditional bowhunting you will probably accumulate too many bows like the rest of us because they are just fun.
Accessories?  You can use them, but most don't.  Simpler is often better, and it's part of what makes this whole thing fun for most of us.  The great thing about traditional bowhunting is that you learn to be effective without too many gizmos.  If you want a bunch of gadgets then going the compound route will likely suit your needs better...and that's OK too.
Quiver on or off?  Yep.  Both work well.  Some prefer one way, some the other.  Most of us do both at one time or another.  I hunted "quiver on" for years, but spent last year and this one thus far without a bow quiver.  Don't know that I have a preference.  Get whatever seems to suit  your hunting style the best.  Just make sure that if you get a bow quiver you practice with it on your bow.
Gloves and tabs are both OK.  I have done both extensively.  At this moment I shoot a Big Shot glove and find it to be the best that I have shot, though I prefer the freedom of a tab.  
Reading material and DVDs?  There is a bunch of stuff.  If you start with good quality personal instruction you either won't need the other stuff or you will be able to wade through the stuff that doesn't fit your style quickly.
One question you didn't ask was about arrows.  Aluminum, wood, or carbon.  The answer is yep, yep, and yep.  All have their pros and cons and will get the job done with room to spare.

Hope this helps some.  Find some good instruction and enjoy.
Best wishes,
Brady

Offline knot klipper

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2007, 06:10:00 PM »
Thanks Brady and thanks to all the others.  No need to worry about me being serious about traditional bow hunting.  I'm already there.  Even though I've gun hunted for years, I had to take the NY Mandated Archery Safety course and at age 42 I can honestly say that I was the oldest guy in the room (including the instructor).  I'll look into the man you mentioned but if it requires extensive travel, I'll have to look elsewhere.  If anyone knows where I can get some training in the Western NY area (Buffalo, Rochester, Western PA etc) I'd appreciate it. This is serious archery country but it's all compound and I don't want to go that route.  I pulled the string back on that old Fred Bear bow today and was hooked.  I have a 700 foot deep backyard so the range will be built soon.  Keep the suggestions coming and feel fee to PM me.

Offline mcgroundstalker

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2007, 06:49:00 PM »
Welcome Aboard Gregg! I can tell that you are ready to jump into this "Trad Life" with two feet. That is good. I've been at this game for about ten years... And still have much to learn. But it's SO MUCH FUN when you learn right from the start.

I started with books and videos trying to teach myself. Was good for a while. The real learning curve was when I went to Traditional Shoots and met great people that gave me an education. Many trad archers enjoy helping "newbees" get better. I made alot of new friends and got better at this game with all the input from these fellas.

Get ready for a wonderful year buddy! Learn what you can when you can. Enjoy The Ride!   :D

... mike ...
"Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies"

Offline Pinecone

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2007, 07:22:00 PM »
Gregg,

Welcome to Wonderland!
I'm going to try and address a few of your specific questions...so here goes.
First, if you know you are serious about trad archery and have decided that the offerings from BW are where you would like to focus, let me assure you that you will be buying a well-proven product from very ethical archers/bowyers.  I personally own four BW recurves and can attest that they are top shelf.  As a person new to trad archery, they have an advantage over some other bow choices...forgiveness.  Because the hand is placed well forward, stability and forgiveness are pre-wired.  That makes a big difference when learning this style of shooting from scratch.
As for accesories, I personally prefer a bow quiver most of the time and the Great Northern strap on is my favorite unless you get the 5/7 quiver from BW.  First, it adds some weight...which helps with shot stablization.  Second, it is very handy in the field.  Just remember that you must tune with a quiver on if you intend to hunt with a quiver on.
In terms of gloves, I peronally like the Super Glove from Alaska Archery Supply.  If you are more oriented toward tabs, BW has a good selection as do others.
In terms of draw weight, the most important factor is that your bow be comfortable to draw and hold for a few seconds while you are picking your spot.  Everyone has different physical capabilities, but in my own case, I hunt with bows that are from 40# to 50# at my 27" draw.  My Widows are all 48# and less at my draw length and all have fully penetrated the animals I have shot.
Finally, don't forget to pay close attention to your arrow selection and tuning.  After you select a bow, please feel free to pm me if you would like a hand, and I'll be happy to share what works for me in terms of this very important topic.

Good Luck and Best Wishes,

Claudia
Pinecone

Offline Otto

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2007, 08:14:00 PM »
Gregg

Lots of good advice here.  I'll echo everything Pinecone just told ya as I only own 4 Widows myself.  I'm 6'3", about 220#'s.  I shoot 50#'s @ 29 inch draw on all my Widows.  I doubt Pinecone has a 29 inch draw but I point this out to say that 45-50#'s has and will continue to kill a lot of whitetails.  Good luck in your pursuit.  Just one more thing....

If you end up only buying one bow, I'll eat my hat.  I know about 1000 differnt traditional guys and gals.  Ain't NONE of em just got one bow!!!!
Otto

Offline Labs4me

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Re: New to Archery. Suggestions for Black Widow bow purchase?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2007, 09:38:00 PM »
KK

Welcome aboard. I've been shooting Widows exclusively since the late 1980s. All my bows are 60" MAIIs, and recently, I have purchased a PLGA in 64". As far as "What poundage to shoot?", my bows are 42#, 47#, 51# (longbow and recurve) and 57#. I can shoot a 29.5" 2216 tipped with a Zwickey Eskimo out of ALL of my bows and the 42# will EASILY send a 2216 through a Michigan Whitetail out to about twenty yards. Frankly, the only difference between my 42# MAII and my 57# MAII is that a 2216 shot out of my 57# bow sticks a little further in the ground upon complete pass through.

I have always used a Fred Bear/Howard Hill variety shooting glove (with cordovan fingertip overlays). My preference has been to use a quick detach, bow mounted quiver - although I hunt with my quiver attached to the bow. On too many occasions to recall, I have used my bow and quiver full of three arrows to conceal myself from semi-alert, closeby deer. A bow with an attached quiver held motionless in front of you works as well to coneceal you as a branch full of oak leaves.

As far as durability and shootability go, you can't beat a Widow. I paid $660 for my first Widow and today, I could sell it on e-bay for the same money- 18 years later! I only wish my other toys would hold their value as well.
"You must not only aim right, but draw the bow with all your might." - Henry David Thoreau (Before the advent of compound bows with 85% letoff)

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