Where have all the deer gone?

[lyagooshka]

BTW: Thanks all for the replies.  In a way, I'm glad I'm not alone, but at the same time it's sad to hear.  Just a thought.  I hope I'm wrong here, I REALLY hope I'm wrong.  For anyone that subscribes to TBM or PA ("Traditional BowHunter Magazine" or "Primitive Archer"), I remember an op-ed in one of them about deer numbers.  The author basically said that deer numbers were higher now than they ever have been and that we're long due for an "adjustment".  He predicted that within a decade we would see a dramatic drop in deer numbers due to many variables (predator reintroduction, urbanization, disease, etc).  I am just wondering if that little "dooms-day prophesy" is starting to come true.  Hope not.

 

[Art B]

A few years ago we had a devastating snow storm of 30+" the 18th of Dec.. And that would have been the trailing end of the second rut. Mortality rate would have been great for bucks that were in a post-rut run-down condition to begin with. Deer numbers seem to be down 75-80% on our property since then. This being the worst year....Art

[Hoyt]

Whitetails have always amazed me by their ability to adapt and survive. However..there just might be an outside chance all the modern technology and equipment being used now days may be having an affect on their numbers.

Just to throw one small example out..it's not uncommon to kill one now from 50 to 60yds and more with a compound..and how many people hunt with those.

[buckeye_hunter]

I won't speculate on this upcoming point too much, but I am worried about distance shooting. This was just mentioned above and can kill a lot of unrecovered deer. I am thinking specifically of one group that wounded(likely fatally) 4 bucks before successfully getting 2 others. That's 6 deer, but only 2 reported dead. The unrecovered deer do not make the stats. If there are even 10 groups that do this then there are 40 unreported deer. I would think the number is actually much higher than that.

Just guessing and thinking out loud,
-Charlie

[hydrasport205]

I agree with buckeye_hunter I think more deer are killed that were not found than the number of deer that were found..times that by the record number of hunters or so called hunters and that can add up very quickly

[lyagooshka]

I hats to bring up the dreaded X-guns, but they are now legal during all archery seasons here in PA. You're now talking muzzle loader distances. Especially noe that scopesbsre allowed. Maybe buckeye_hunter has a point.

[Paul/KS]

They are legal in Kansass too...

[Don Stokes]

Guys, legal hunting cannot wipe out the deer. You can take 40% of a deer herd without reducing it. That's their reproduction rate. A couple of my friends use crossbows (shoulder injuries), and they are no threat. I don't like them, but I don't think they're any more "deadly" than a regular compound. If there is truly a reduction in deer population other than in isolated spots, something else is at work. We don't really understand all the workings of nature, and fluctuations in population are normal for all species. This too will pass.

[RedShaft]

I have to disagree to a point. Most guys today are with better equipment. Love shooting and practice all the time. I think there are better ratio of deer to kills. Accuracy is beyond. They 15 - so yard shot we take can't hold a candle to others. I mean really they can slam a deer at 30-40 pretty well with great accuracy. I am not a tradition snoob. I may get blasted for that comment but to each his own. I and not against compounds or x bows. I think they are way more deadly than the equipment we use. Without a doubt. Now yeah we are deadly at the distances we shoot. But if I had to go take an animal other than the rifle I know what I'm reaching for. And it's not made of wood.

I don think there is more wounded deer no. I honk there are more accurate shot and more deer being killed because of the power and accuracy of new weapons. This may be an issue that was not considered from the past is a more lethal group of hunters afield. But the states know this and can see it on the harvest reports.  

Bad acorn crop across the us yes. Poor management in some states, absolutely, a newer breed or more deadly accurate hunters absolutely, big buck craze absolutely, a low year on deer numbers due to mast absolutely. We needed to be hunting more agriculture and surrounding areas. If you can't or was not able to your not going to be on deer. Next year maybe a good one. I'm going to duck now so I don't get shot for my post. Lol      

[Hoyt]

It's really according to what legal hunting is. In my opinion a lot of states..Illinois included don't really want large populations of deer and have changed laws, added seasons, to reduce the herd for insurance companies, farmers, etc.

That along with more advanced equipment used in seasons that weren't intended for their range and effectiveness will decimate a deer herd in the type of terrain Illinois has..no big swamps or places the deer can hole up in and escape pressure like in the south and some other parts of the country with more liberal seasons, dog hunting, etc.

Actually if you put compounds, scoped inlines and crossbows in modern weapons season along with rifles, shotguns and handguns I think things would be more like intended in the beginning.

Just my opinion.

[George Vernon]

I don't think there is single answer for all the areas experiencing a decline in deer.  So all the ideas expressed are probably factors.

The area of Indiana I hunt has experienced a significant decline in the past couple of years.  I talked with some of our DNR folks and here are the key points they have made.

Generally speaking the weather across the state has really benefited farmers this year.  Also a good mast crop, so the deer numbers for the whole state are likely up.

Ups and downs of the deer population are very spotty with some counties way up and others down.

There have been outbreaks of EHD.  Years of extended dry spells seem to increase the population of the midge flies that transmit the disease and/or concentrate the deer around scarce water sources making it easier for the midge to get to larger numbers.  Most deaths happen in late August and early September before a frost kills the midge.  EHD outbreaks can be very localized.  With very high mortality rates, a local group of deer can simply disappear.  Hunters in such an area can see a dramatic change in sightings in just 3-4 weeks.

A lot of people around me are still out of work, or working many fewer hours than before.  Lot of folks hunting for food that may not have other wise hunted.

Poaching is up likely for the same reason.

Despite large numbers of anterless permits, the buck to doe ratio is still very low in many areas as a lot of hunters still fixate on a trophy.  I've suggested, and no one in DNR listens, they should consider saying for the low ratio counties, one has to tag a doe before they can get a buck.  Low rations make it harder for the herd to recover in down areas, and hunting is not as much fun.  For example, rut sign is minimal in low ratio areas.

The population seems to recover, but it can take a long time.  I used to do a lot of hunting in SE Ohio.  Lots of deer, good ratios, plenty of sign in the 80's and 90's.  The area I hunted was written up in a couple of national magazines and the herd went to pot in the early 2000's.  I think to over hunting.  Just now seeing it recover.

[R.Cogburn73]

I'm in western Illinois.  Our numbers are terrible.  While hunting two or three times I've seen yearlings that should have a doe with them, but they are all alone.  Numbers are just not there.  I'm on private land, hundreds of acres.

[Sam McMichael]

Admittedly, I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist. But for years the bag limit has been very high, which according to some, is due to the efforts of insurance companies trying to reduce the number of deer to reduce the insurance claims. Maybe, maybe not, but there are a whole lot of dead deer on the Georgia roads every day. Another thought is that unreported die offs have taken place. Whatever the case, I have not been seeing as many deer in recent years. I have also noted an increase in sleek looking, well fed coyotes in my area.

[Ravenhood]

If the DNR is trying to reduce the herd why is it hard to believe that they are accomplishing it?

[Robyn Hode]

I agree with the coyote comment. I saw two very well feed coyotes from my stand about three weeks ago. They were the size of german shepards they were tracking an injured buck I saw run by me on three legs the night before. Who ever shot it only hit the lower leg.

As for deer, I was seeing a lot of bucks before gun season but now their gone. I believe once gun season starts the deer just go noctural for a few weeks. I do believe it matters where and how you hunt (food source vs. rut). I always hunt food/water sources and the deer seem to be in the agriculture fields this year. I have only seen one deer in the hardwood forests.

[b.glass]

A cousin shot a doe that had been attacked by yotes. Her nose and tongue was all chewed up. He shot three yotes chasing a doe last week.

[Michael Arnette]

I carry a 17 HMR with me at all times when bow hunting. I shoot several coyotes every year while I am bow hunting. Last year I shot 5 and have seen great deer numbers this year!
I don't think it's legal to carry both during archery but I really don't care. I always mean to hunt coyotes after deer season but as you know, its just hard to find the time.
Guys, if you are hunting deer, you need to take up predator hunting.

[jonsimoneau]

I think about these things a lot and I believe in my area there are a number of factors at play. In my area deer numbers are half of what they were 20 years ago. The number one culprit in my opinion was when our state went to unlimited doe tags for bowhunters. Add this to the fact that compound bows have become at least twice as effective as they were 20 years ago and more deer are gonna bite the dust. Coyotes have increased almost beyond belief. In my fertile area of the Midwest it used to be fairly common to see does with triplet fawns. Not anymore. In fact most does only have 1 fawn now. I'm convinced the coyote predation on fawns is much higher than what some people believe. Since it is very hard to control coyotes the easiest solution is to cut back on the doe tags.

[Paul Shirek]

I agree that hunting can't "wipe out" deer, at least not completely however, when unlimited doe tags are given and people use them it can come close. Rifle hunters do drives, hunt in unbelievable numbers and can legally purge a whole area from deer. I have heard people boasting about their hunting group shooting 20-30 deer and all from a small area. This makes hunting next year almost hopeless. This has happened in WI for a number of years now and it shows. Thankfully in some areas they have begun to limit the tags for a couple of years and in some small areas they are coming back. The other positive if it can be called that is that the hunting has been so bad lately that many have given up and gone elsewhere or just don't hunt at all, so no matter how many tags they issue some people just won't hunt especially on public land and some of these areas are getting a bit better. There was in our state (WI) a concerted effort to reduce the deer herd and it worked too well. It was sold to the public by telling them that the herd numbers were unbelievably high and we all were supposed to do our part to keep them down. Unfortunately it worked and sadly it took years for hunters to believe their experiences over the DNR propaganda. I am hoping it gets better...

[BrushWolf]

High bag limits + predators eating most of the young and old dying off = no deer. IMO