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Author Topic: Michigan deer season  (Read 1921 times)

Offline Chain2

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2013, 01:54:00 PM »
I hunt public land essentially one tank of gas north of the large metropolitan areas. I was seeing deer right along until 15 Nov. Nothing now. We had a camp of 8 guys move in the area we hunt, lots of loud trucks, woods stomping, sighting and re-sighting rifles. I have moved out trying to get somewhere where pressure is lower. I bowhunt my land but I let a small 8 a couple smaller 6's and forks go before gun season. I was hoping for a better buck or at least giving these guys an opportunity to breed. They have all been shot an accounted for except one.  Back elk hunting next year. After hunting the same general area in Michigan for fourty years, I am depressed.
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Offline Mojostick

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2013, 03:53:00 PM »
Jon,

The youth hunt has little impact. Bowhunters scouting, hanging stands and baiting puts far more pressure on deer in September.

In the entire NLP over the past 2 years, a grand total of a whopping 5000 bucks were killed in the youth hunt. Compare that to roughly 150,000 bucks killed in the regular seasons in the same time period. Poachers take more early bucks than the kids. Although, I said when it started and still do, that the youth hunt always should have been antlerless only. My reasoning is not to protect bucks for adults, but to teach kids that killing does is a good thing and so that they don't have the bad hangup some older guys do about killing does.

You mention our "long" bow season. Actually, we have a short bow season. Many states around us have 2 months more or bowhunting than we do. Ohio hunts until early Feb. Kentucky starts in early Sept.

If anything, we Michigan bowhunters should be pushing for a Sept. 1-Jan.31 bow season. There's no reason we should have such a short bow season, with so many firearms/ML dates mixed in. December used to be nice, but now it's just a long front load rifle season, with ML's that are good out to 250 yards.

Offline Bobby Urban

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2013, 05:09:00 PM »
Amen MOJO - give us a true late season again that is limited to bow that you pull with your arms only.  I don't care if it has wheels but no x-guns for a month - J1-J31.  I would be giddy.  Loved the late season back in the day but anymore it is, as you said, "A long rifle season" with the blackpowder rifles.  

For the record, I have no problem with the powers that be setting it up the way they do and I completely understand the $$$ reasons - Michigan is broke!!  But if there was a bow only month that late it would account for less than 1% of the whole harvest while allowing us to get back out and sit in trees.

Offline CDR

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 07:18:00 PM »
Mojo...   :clapper:

Offline xtrema312

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 07:46:00 PM »
Well if I am not mistaken the early gun seasons have reduced quite a bit. I think we are down to one weekend total two days combination youth and early antlerless. That is a lot better than the four day antlerless we had one week and youth the following weekend we had back a couple years ago.

Youth hunters are spread out and antlerless is private land only. It is not that big of a deal anymore in most places.

Most people i know don't even hunt the early antlerless. It is to warm for most to want to deal with a deer.

I was not for The youth season it because of right of passage stuff. I think kids need to hunt some small game before killing deer. My kids are doing small game a couple years first but after years of the neighbor's grand kids killing off a good chunk of the early bucks in the area, I plan to have my kids do the same now that his grand kids are done with that.  Payback time don't you know and I can't wait.
1 Timothy 4:4(NKJV)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

Firefly Long Bow  James 4:14
60" MOAB 54@29 James 1:17

Michigan Longbow Association

Offline Bonebuster

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2013, 08:05:00 PM »
Bottom line is deer populations are extremely low in many areas...

Habitat in the areas I hunt have NEVER been better, and pressure has never been higher. Crossbows HAVE taken over...it is a fact. I do not know ANYONE who still uses a compound...even if they don`t outwardly share it, they have switched to crossbows...it is just easier. AND it is making a difference. Just look at all the pictures of deer taken in archery season...I can show you dozens on facebook...and there is no bow in the picture. People are a bit embarrassed by it, because they know it is easier.

In all, my house had a great season, BUT we adapted and put in the effort and expense to travel around. Without the ability to spend money to travel, our season would be a BUST.

We had better get used to it.

Online Pine

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2013, 08:32:00 PM »
In my area near Sparta not even seeing road kills .
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. Mark Twain

If you're afraid to offend, you can't be honest.

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Offline xtrema312

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 08:49:00 PM »
Now I am sure some have neighbors with a pile of kids and the adults all go out and shot a dozen does each on this one weekend so wipe out your deer heard in September, but most of us likely have very little impact these days from this one weekend in September.  Other than maybe some kid shoots your buck you were planning to have 6 weeks to chase.

I never was for the early seasons but frankly other than being a little bit of a nuisance to "my" deer and "my" preferred hunting method, I'm am not sure it really amounts to a whole lot other than infringing on my slightly selfish wants and preferences. Now there are a few less deer I don't get first chance at like I did for over 35 years, but then some kid has a good hunt and maybe ends up a hunter vs a tree hugger. I guess I can live with that.

I don't know about this cross bow thing yet.  I would just as soon we didn't have them. I have not seen that many around.  Most people I know switched from compounds. Some got back in bow season that were out due to physical issues. i see a pile of the things for sale used now. I am sure there are plenty of gun hunters that jumped in, but I am thinking once most figure out the crossbow is not much different than a compound all things considered, and it is not a gun, you will end up with not a huge change to deer harvest. I could be wrong. All I know is piles of people got onto compounds thinking that was going to be an real easy to kill deer and they found out it was not gun hunting and so easy.  There area lot of hunters used to gun hunting maybe 6 days a year at most that get bored real quick not seeing much or shooting anything after a few weeks in October. That is when those compounds and crossbows collect dust. I know of some new crossbow hunters that were really going to get in on the early easy hunting in bow season and found out it wasn't gun season in October.  What they did was spook all the deer off and shot nothing in bow season and shut down their spots for gun. Didn't quite work out so well. Unfortunately this has and will impact us particularly on public land.
1 Timothy 4:4(NKJV)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

Firefly Long Bow  James 4:14
60" MOAB 54@29 James 1:17

Michigan Longbow Association

Offline Jon Stewart

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2013, 08:49:00 PM »
mojo, I agree with most of what you wrote except we have a 2 1/2 month long bow season with some gun seasons added (black powder and late doe).  Oct, 1/2 of Nov and all of Dec is the  designated bow season.

I also agree with the youth/mentoring seasons. Shouldn't happen but because they are there we allowed the grandkids to hunt  during that time frame.

I also think the crossbow has really out a hurt to the bow season.

I didn't put trail cams out this year but last year I did and has some really nice 130am bucks on them.

Offline Mourning Wood

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2013, 10:01:00 PM »
Brothers I enjoy this topic because I love to hear how my fellow Michiganders are doing!! I was fascinated by two things that surprised me.  My younger Brother T.J. was using a trail camera over a bait pile on our property in Newaygo. Plenty of does were on camera during day time hours but bucks would show up from three a.m. till around six. This was before the time change. I joked that the boys knew the poachers were in bed by then but up there you would hear a occasional "night light" shot. Also the cross bow issue is real, we have a Cabella's near us and they have a full two aisles dedicated to selling these things and almost everyone had a scope afixed to them. Plus they averaged between 1,000 to 2,000 dollars. I work with a couple of guys that are concistantly taking deer and big ones from over fifty yards. I can't begrudge them for using a weapon legally but the times are way different now!! I know as guys have said we have to adapt but we accept the limitations of our chosen equipment. Sheeze!!ED
Jack of all trades,Expert at none!!

Offline Mourning Wood

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2013, 10:02:00 PM »
Brothers I enjoy this topic because I love to hear how my fellow Michiganders are doing!! I was fascinated by two things that surprised me.  My younger Brother T.J. was using a trail camera over a bait pile on our property in Newaygo. Plenty of does were on camera during day time hours but bucks would show up from three a.m. till around six. This was before the time change. I joked that the boys knew the poachers were in bed by then but up there you would hear a occasional "night light" shot. Also the cross bow issue is real, we have a Cabella's near us and they have a full two aisles dedicated to selling these things and almost everyone had a scope afixed to them. Plus they averaged between 1,000 to 2,000 dollars. I work with a couple of guys that are concistantly taking deer and big ones from over fifty yards. I can't begrudge them for using a weapon legally but the times are way different now!! I know as guys have said we have to adapt but we accept the limitations of our chosen equipment. Sheeze!!ED
Jack of all trades,Expert at none!!

Offline Steve O

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2013, 10:36:00 PM »
I guess I will add my  opinions:

1. The MI DNR does not manage the deer herd here. They use occasional "pellet" counts and "spotters" watching highway traffic.  They have NO idea how many deer are in the state nor how many deer are harvested. None.

I cannot recal the exact amount of Conservation Officers we have. I am fairly certain it is less than one per county. Enforcement of the game laws is almost non existent.  

2. The MI DNR has given out basically unlimited antlerless permits for over a decade. Public land deer herds have been DECIMATED. Michigan hunters are VERY efficient and will shoot anything that moves and there are (were) 750,000 licensed FIREARMS hunters whose season is Nov 15-30 right during the middle of the rut.

3.  If you have access to private land, you may or may not be in better shape...kinda depends on the "philosophy" of your neighbors. Not many folks own enough acreage to manage their own herd here.

I hunt very little for deer here any more. I won't go into all the trespassing and disrespect. There are too many places that DO manage their deer herd to waste a lot of time and energy trying to hunt this mess. For a long time I would go thru the motions for tradition and to visit with family, but lately even that is not enough.

   :(

Offline xtrema312

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2013, 11:41:00 PM »
I think it is really hard to know what the crossbow is doing with so few years to judge and EHD so bad last year on top of generally over hunting for years in a lot of areas.  I have been seeing numbers drop way ahead of the crossbow and early seasons.I would love to see some data on the the crossbow hunting, but don't see any yet. It is going to be hard to figure with the record keeping system we don't have.

What I do see and have seen so much of is blaming other hunters using other tools for lack of deer. It is not the hunting tools that is the big problem.

Most hunters shot stuff inside 30 yd with archery equipment and inside 100 with guns. Many hunters can't hit a deer with any gun past 100 yd from a treestand or on the ground in hunting conditions. If they could they wouldn't have to shoot 2-5 shots every time they see a deer. At least that is the way it goes on the shotgun zone.

I am sorry but blaming in-line muzzle loaders due to long range accuracy is not justified. Most of that is advertising. I have hunted deer in Michigan since I started hunting with a gun using muzzle loaders much of the time because I mostly bint in the shotgun zone. My 50 cal. Hawkins was far superior to any of my bird guns in the 70s.  I have done a lot of hobby shooting of MLs over the years with some of the top of the line in-lines with modified primer systems, all kinds of powders, and all kinds of bullets.  I have gotten some stuff to actually shot some good groups out to 200. Real deer accuracy at 250 in hunting conditions is quite an accomplishment very few are capable of with an ML of any kind. The majority of the time the average Joe gets whatever is on sale, tries a couple bullets, sites in and goes hunting with a gun that shots 4 inch groups at 100 yd.  They have no ideas what the hold over is at 250 let alone the wind drift. A in-line ML is not a high velocity rifle. It is more powerful, more accurate than the stuff we had 30 years ago, but worst of all puts more hunters in our season; which is the real issue isn't it?

We don't have anymore right to the deer or our way of hunting than any other hunters with other hunting tools. We get the best of the weather and rut as far as i am concerned.  We gain nothing by blaming compounds, crossbows and in-lines. We need all hunters banned together to keep hunting rights and improve things. Trad bow hunters don't stand a chance on our own doing much of anything to change stuff.  Sure a longer bow season and archery only late season sounds good to me but we will not get it unless we include all archery as it is now defined to gain support.

I think the real issues are coyotes in some areas, EHD, and the season bag limits / doe permits and time to use them. Take out the late antlerless season and cut doe permits down. Go to one buck tag if needed.  Then the early seasons, crossbows, and ML seasons wouldn't put a dent in the deer population we would have. Late seasons would be a lot more quiet again. More deer to go around to more hunters in some of the specialty seasons. We don't need people shooting a dozen does and two bucks a year just because they can.
1 Timothy 4:4(NKJV)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

Firefly Long Bow  James 4:14
60" MOAB 54@29 James 1:17

Michigan Longbow Association

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2013, 07:22:00 AM »
Not to worry fellas, help is on the way.  

As soon as we get the entire state under some sort of APR, putting even more pressure on the does, that will fix everything.

This time next year we will be covered up in big bucks.   :laughing:

Offline Steve O

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2013, 07:30:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tooner:
Not to worry fellas, help is on the way.  

As soon as we get the entire state under some sort of APR, putting even more pressure on the does, that will fix everything.

This time next year we will be covered up in big bucks.    :laughing:  
Yep. Sitting on 4 Iowa points with Kansas, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Ohio properties waiting along with Kentucky and Nebraska on the list to explore. That is fine and dandy when I have the itch to hunt deer rather than something "bigger" but does not help my kids much at all.    :(

Fortunately my son is capable enough now we can do a lot more exploring and maybe next year will be the one where we will find a little pocket of deer here!

Offline Mojostick

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2013, 09:01:00 AM »
Some DMU's do have less deer than they did in the post timbering deer boom, but others have more deer. Most northern DMU's have less deer both because the habitat has aged and the biologists have tried to keep populations lower because of TB/CWD concerns and the large winter die off's/further habitat damage that would come if deer populations became too high for the habitat.

Michigan's deer history is easy to follow. In the late 1800's thru early 1900's, the northern part of the state was essentially clearcut. What followed was a deer boom due to that extreme timbering. However, many northern units have slowly been reverting back to what they were pre-timbering, that being fairly marginal deer habitat where Winter and habitat dictate more than in southern area's.

Many guys our age grew up going north and seeing lots of deer. But we simply caught the tail end of the timber/deer herd boom. Several top biologists have written that parts of northern Michigan can no longer get the herd size "boom" going, to get the boom/bust/boom/bust herds we all grew up with. Basically, in many area's, the forest has reverted back to the tipping point where an area will probably never have more than 25 deer per mile again, as opposed to the 50 plus deer per mile they may have had 30 years ago, with a younger forest and year round supplemental feeding.

Look, we can beat the finer points to death. But keep this in mind, because this is the seeing "the forest for the tree's" moment. On average, those private land hunters doing some habitat improvements and better "trigger management" and those public land hunters doing more research into finding recently timbered lands are pretty happy with their hunting and have a bright outlook for the future. Those who hunt private land where a chainsaw hasn't touched a tree since 1923 and those hunting unimproved, northern public lands with soils so poor that nobody wanted it 100 years ago are typically less happy with their deer hunting.

We started doing lots of changes at my place starting in 1999. Before then, we were the typical NLP deer camp. We shot a pile of spikes, thought clearcutting was bad and we thought feeding bloated herds all winter long was a good thing. Since then, we've essentially turned our entire forest over, with the expection of saving/managing about 50% of the mast trees, we've passed most yearling bucks, shot about 2 does for every buck and created quiet area sanctuary's, even though they are only some 3-5 acres in size. They work.

If you don't like how your hunting is going, defending the status quo policies that got you there doesn't make sense to me. In the north, it's the current regs that brought about a 30% decline in hunters and a skewed buck to doe ratio. I'm open to trying new regs that have worked elsewhere. We know what our liberal buck tag program will do for us.

Back to a January season, maybe the bow groups should get together and focus on running archery season thru Feb. 1. I personally talked to the Ohio DNR deer chief and he said he'd supply any data we may need and he said there's no reason not to give bowhunters all that extra opportunity. He also said that January archers who take a "dropped antler" buck account for something like .6% of the buck kill. That's a point in front of the 6. Cars kill more bucks in January. It's a no brainer for us. We should use the same reasoning/precedent set with the crossbow inclusion. A January bow season increases opportunity for hunters but doesn't have a large negative impact on the resource. Slam dunk.

Offline Zradix

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2013, 02:47:00 PM »
I've found it to be slow.
So have 3 of my buddies that hunt in totally different areas.
We all have seen more coyote sign than normal.
If some animals are good at hunting and others are suitable for hunting, then the Gods must clearly smile on hunting.~Aristotle

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Offline Chain2

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2013, 07:31:00 PM »
It seems to me it seems to be a compilation of sorts, my county is not QDM . I saw alot of new faces this rifle season. The youth hunt kills and wounds alot of bucks that do not get the opportunity to breed. Trail cameras, more efficient equipment (not hunters), baiting, GPS, ( they stray farther from the road)tree stand legalization for rifles and ML's. It seems we have developed a real hatrid for the michigan whitetail. I ran in to a group today. Three young men 20's , 3 cameras out a piece, two trucks full of sugar beets. Where ever they see buck movement on the cameras, they pack in the beets. Mind you they walked right thru the bedding area where I am hunting. I have been west enough, not to think alot of Michigan rifle hunting. I used to love it though.
"Windage and elevation Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation..."

Offline long time archer

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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2013, 07:31:00 PM »
Hunt south central MI before moving to northern IN, I saw exactly 2button bucks, 2 fork horns, and one 6 point which is in my freezer. Does were more plentiful just after dark walking out as they came out of the swamps heading to the grain and hay fields. I would estimate 50 to 60 does come out at night. OUr cameras showed some larger bucks but always around midnight to 3 am. We found only one dead last year with the outbreak of EHD, so I don't think that had much effect on our area.
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Re: Michigan deer season
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2013, 07:57:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chain2:
 It seems to me it seems to be a compilation of sorts,  my county is not QDM.  
This confuses me.  There are  no  counties in MI, that I am aware of, that are designated QDM.

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