Michigan deer season

[ChuckC]

Remember too, that in a normal situation.. MOST bucks do not get the opportunity to breed, only the Alpha bucks, unless of course there are none and the spikes do the deed.

ChuckC

[Jon Stewart]

There are antler restriction counties.

[Chain2]

I was under the assumption that the NW counties adapted QDM. Emmet, Charlevoix, Antrim.... I think there were 13 counties in all

[Jon Stewart]

Mason county and north have antler restrictions. 3 points or more on one side and second license the deer has to have 4 points or more on one side.  Not sure if the DNR calls it QDM or not.

[Drew]

bad economy, lack of management, lack of education, QDM, habitat loss, and EHD are hurting my area.

With the bad economy and over abundance of tags the public land by me has taken a serious beating, this years fawns are lucky to make it to next season.

The private land around me is all QDM and has been for 10 years or so, and a complete joke. Does have been slaughtered for years, and then the EHD hit. Now everyone is crying where's the deer? The hype of "decent" bucks has led to more poaching in the area. Also the mentality of "claiming" the bucks which leads to almost mature bucks being shot before they reach their potential to avoid someone else possibly killing them. Of the mature bucks taken a majority were killed in the youth season, and the majority of those youths have stopped hunting after a few years...oddly most of the kids that killed smaller bucks or does are still hooked.

Habitat loss due to farming, more people burning wood, and housing are pushing deer into smaller concentrations and closer to the highway.

Before all of this i'd see deer every sit while hunting, now i'm down to seeing a handful of deer in a WHOLE season.


Yet, a few counties over on my Dad's place with zero QDM and no EHD...I still see quite a few does, some young bucks get shot, and occasionally a bruiser makes a mistake and is killed.

Originally posted by Chain2:
I was under the assumption that the NW counties adapted QDM. Emmet, Charlevoix, Antrim.... I think there were 13 counties in all

There were 12 new counties that just had antler restrictions become effective this year but antler point restrictions are not QDM.  Not even close.

I don't mean to rude or anything, I just don't like people getting the false impression that an antler point restriction is the same thing as QDM.

On another site I go to someone said comparing antler point restrictions to QDM is like comparing having your temperature checked to a complete physical.  That about sums it up.

[Mojostick]

QDM is far more than mere antler point restrictions. Protecting a higher number of yearling bucks is only a small part of QDM. Plus, Michigan has had a 4pt on one side APR since 1998, for the 2nd tag. Despite that 4pt APR, Michigan still allows 2 bucks in any season, so the result is Michigan hunters kill a higher percentage of yearling bucks than in any other state in the union.

What Michigan has and has had is more Traditional Deer Management. We have the most liberal buck tag system in the Midwest, a peak rut firearms opener based on 1925 science and a long for the region 16 day firearms season followed up by a long muzzleloader season, with modern inlines allowed. Baiting is also common place. A good fix would be a later firearms opener in the LP, keep Nov.15 for the UP for snow concerns and shorten firearms season to either a week or two 3-4 day short seasons, like Illinois does.

My suggestion to the trail cam users is do what I did and sell them. When I used trail cams, I saw lots of after dark activity. When I ditched the cams and checking the cams, I saw much more daylight activity.

As far as QDM, my land is in what used to be the heaviest hunted DMU in the state. Our hunting was terrible in the early 2000's. But by doing the things like Pheasants Forever, Trout Unlimited, Ducks Unlimited and QDMA do, we now have really great deer hunting now. It's good enough to where more guys want to go traditional at my place, because it's so easy to kill deer with a compound now.

If one is unhappy with what the regulations of the past 20 years have brought you, fight to change them. If you're totally happy with the current regulations and the results they've brought you, then fight changes and fight to keep exactly the hunting you have now. Judging by the favorite pastime of many Michigan deer hunters, meaning complaining, then one would expect a thirst for modernizing our outdated regulations. If one is unhappy with the by-product of the current regulations, I find it baffling that that person would also fight changes that have had good results and 70-75% approval elsewhere.

It also sounds like many are still confused about QDM. Here's a quick read...

“To ensure the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage.”

QDMA promotes sustainable, high quality white-tailed deer populations, wildlife habitats, and ethical hunting experiences through education, research, and management in partnership with hunters, landowners, natural resource professionals, and the public. Membership in the QDMA is open to anyone with an interest in the wise management of white-tailed deer. The time has come for all deer hunting enthusiasts, regardless of their choice of weapon or hunting technique, to unite and focus on the common thread that binds them all together – the love of deer hunting and the desire that future generations will be able to experience the great tradition of deer hunting.

What is Quality Deer Management?

Quality Deer Management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints. This approach typically involves the protection of young bucks (yearlings and some 2.5 year-olds) combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy population in balance with existing habitat conditions and landowner desires. This level of deer management involves the production of quality deer (bucks, does, and fawns), quality habitat, quality hunting experiences, and, most importantly, quality hunters.

A successful QDM program requires an increased knowledge of deer biology and active participation in management. This level of involvement extends the role of the hunter from mere consumer to manager. The progression from education to understanding, and finally, to respect; bestows an ethical obligation upon the hunter to practice sound deer management. Consequently, to an increasing number of landowners and hunters, QDM is a desirable alternative to traditional management, which allows the harvest of any legal buck and few, if any, does.

QDM guidelines are formulated according to property-specific objectives, goals, and limitations. Participating hunters enjoy both the tangible and intangible benefits of this approach. Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience, regardless if a shot is fired. What is important is the chance to interact with a well-managed deer herd that is in balance with its habitat. A side benefit is the knowledge that mature bucks are present in the herd – something lacking on many areas under traditional deer management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, the pride can be shared by all property hunters because it was they who produced it by allowing it to reach the older age classes which are necessary for large bodies and antlers.

The QDM Philosophy

Increasingly, landowners, hunters, and wildlife managers across North America are embracing the QDM philosophy. This is evidenced by the increasing voluntary and regulatory implementation of QDM practices on private and public lands. Hunters are rethinking what constitutes a “quality” hunt and how they can make a positive contribution to the future of the deer herds they hunt.

Another benefit of QDM is increased hunter safety. By taking the time to positively identify each deer by sex and age, the likelihood of accidental shootings is even more remote than under current management methods. Hunters participating in QDM enjoy both the tangible and intangible benefits of this approach. Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience regardless if a shot is fired or an animal is harvested.

What is important is the chance to interact with a well-managed deer herd that is in balance with its habitat. A side benefit is the knowledge that mature bucks are present in the herd – something lacking on many areas under traditional deer management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, all property hunters can share the pride because they helped produce it by allowing it to pass as a younger animal.

QDM Building Blocks

QDM guidelines must be tailored to each property, there are four cornerstones to all successful QDM programs: herd management, habitat management, hunter management, and herd monitoring.

Herd Management - Perhaps the most important part of QDM is herd management. Determining the appropriate number of deer to harvest by sex and age is essential. In many areas, deer populations are at or above optimum levels and herd stabilization or reduction is needed. [More]

Habitat Management - Improving available nutrition is another important cornerstone of QDM. The diet of a healthy herd should contain 12 to 18 percent protein and adequate levels of calcium, phosphorous, and other important nutrients. [More]

Hunter Management - Hunter management is a critical, yet often difficult aspect of QDM. Education is the key. Hunters must fully understand both the benefits and costs of QDM. [More ]

Herd Monitoring - Herd monitoring is the final cornerstone of QDM. Two types of data are commonly collected – harvest data and observation data. Harvest data should be collected from every deer taken or found dead on a property. Commonly collected harvest data include sex, age, weight, antler measurements, and reproductive information. [More]

Is QDM For All Hunters?

Not necessarily. But a growing number of hunters have progressed to a stage in their hunting that reflects a change in values and a desire for a “different” hunting experience. Involvement in QDM is simply an alternative to traditional deer management. Originally, only large properties (1,000 acres or more) were involved in QDM, but smaller properties are now participating through the formation of QDM cooperatives comprised of several smaller properties with similar objectives.

Is QDM For You?

Quality deer management is not a panacea and many things should be considered before implementing QDM practices on your hunting land. If you answer yes to the following questions, QDM may be right for you.
• Do you have enough acreage to manage your deer population without being severely affected by hunting pressure on adjacent properties? If not, will your neighbors join you and possibly others in forming a QDM cooperative?
• Is the habitat on your hunting property adequate to produce and maintain a healthy deer herd? If not, do you and your hunting companions have the funds, equipment, and commitment to manage and improve the habitat?
• Do the deer-hunting regulations in your state allow enough flexibility to manage your herd?
• Does your state wildlife agency encourage and assist landowners with management and allow adequate doe harvests?
• Are you and your hunting companions prepared to commit to a long-term (often five or more years) management program?
• Do you and your hunting companions understand the financial, time, and energy commitments and have realistic expectations regarding a QDM program?

When considering QDM, realistic expectations must be stressed. Management goals should be set with the potential of the local herd in mind. As a quality herd becomes established, it is important not to let expectations exceed the capabilities of the herd or habitat. Significant changes to deer herds and deer habitats do not happen overnight and often take several years to become obvious.

[Mojostick]

One other point, QDM isn't always about lowering deer herds. In some northern DMU's, the goal could be either sustaining herds at current levels until habitat improves or even allowing herds to grow a bit because the carry capacity can handle it.

The thing to keep in mind is, a bloated herd can do severe, long term damage to natural browse in a short time. Unless there's very proactive habitat improvements, it can take decades of low herd numbers for native browse to heal on it's own. The problem of northern Michigan is, we had decades of harmful overbrowsing, even if many hunters don't see it or understand it. A think forest of browse species deer won't touch, because the large herds ate all the preferred species, is not a healthy forest for game species.

 The fix there is the chainsaw to cut old, scrub species and the planting bar to plant 1000's of saplings.

I've always maintained that the anti-hunting groups don't have to ban hunting, all they need to do is ban clear-cutting and forest management on public lands and eventually public lands wouldn't have enough game animals to warrant hunting anymore.

[Mojostick]

It turns out Gov. Snyder just signed a bill that cranks up fines for recreational trespass and we're doing like Ohio and cranking up fines on bucks with racks over 100". Since people who wouldn't poach a spike horn often do goofy things when a mature buck shows up, knowing you might get a huge fine for poaching a large buck has shown to cool those jets somewhat.

[Rathbuck]

I agree with your sentiments, SteveO.

Snyder has seen the sportsman of this state as a huge source of revenue - continuing with unlimited tags, and really cranking up the tag prices for next season.  More tags, higher prices = more revenue for Lansing.

I don't think our DNR really has a clue as to deer numbers - especially in certain areas.

I'm going to make this sound really bad, but in my hunting this year in Ingham County (private land), I've seen a ton of deer, even with the corn on.  We seem to have reduced pressure, as one of our neighbors that really hammered the deer last year has really let up (only saw him once all season).  During the early doe season I saw 25+ deer while hunting with the recurve, and just last weekend I went out to fill a doe tag and saw close to 20 again.

The rut seemed to be very strange, slow and almost non-existant at times, which was incredibly frustrating.  Last Saturday I had four bucks chasing does around the fields like it was the heart of the rut!  They were all small (largest was a 2-1/2 year old basket rack), however.

Up north (Missaukee County), our deer numbers are solid, and we're in the APR zone.  We took a few does, and one solid 8pt, and I had a buck at 30 yards a few weeks ago that I think would break P&Y minimums (we've been in agreement with the neighbors on shooting small bucks for a while now).  He was the biggest buck I've seen up there in probably 20 years.

I've heard reliable reports from friends that they are hardly seeing anything, however, and lots of tags going unfilled this year.

Lots of problems in this state, that's for sure...

[Mojostick]

Adjusted for inflation, our tags are as cheap as ever. In todays dollars, a single buck tag in 1973 was $38. Our tags have been too inexpensive to fund the DNR. A better way to fund MDNR isn't by mainly tags. The animals belong to the state, right? So, everyone who buys a license plate for a vehicle should get a $10 charge to manage the natural resources that belong to all of us.

While Michigan deer hunters love to complain, it is a sport of it's own here, we still kill close to a half million deer every year. Last year we killed about a quarter million antlerless deer and a quarter million antlered bucks. That, as Nugent likes to say, is a stack.

Here's the last data from Ingham county...

WORKSHEET FOR ESTABLISHING DEER POPULATION GOALS - DMU_033
(Ingham County), 2006- 2010
Adjacent DMU(s) used in calculating goal: compared to all other adjacent DMU’s, but treated separately
2006 - 2010 goal: 12,300 to 14,600 deer (22/sq mi to 26/sq mi)
Estimated 2005 population 24,700 deer
1996 - 2004 goal: 15,120 deer (27/sq mi):

Deer Herd Characteristics
The October 1 deer herd estimate for DMU 033 has ranged between 15,600 (28 deer per square mile in 2001) and 24,700 (44 deer per square mile in 2004) between 1994 and 2005. The herd could be classified as having above average deer density (44 deer per square mile-2005 SAK estimate-rank: 16th of 91 DMU’s), above average intensity of buck harvest (75% of buck harvest is yearlings-2001-2004 deer check data-rank: 12th out of 40 southern Michigan DMU’s), average doe:buck ratios (2.3 does/buck-2004 deer check data-rank: 61rd out of 91 DMU’s), above average fawn:doe ratios in harvest (0.7 fawns/doe-2004 deer check data-rank: tied for 9th out of 40 south Michigan DMU’s), and excellent health (22.8 mm average beam diameter of yearling bucks-2004 deer check data-rank: 2nd highest in state out of 93 DMU’s).

[Chain2]

I did mistakenly type QDM whenit is only antler restrictions. Whatever you call it though, a lot of new faces have shown up in an area we have hunted for almost 25 yrs. I like the idea of changing the season dates. Maybe have (3) one-week long seasons for firearms- all firearms. You would have to draw for your week. Let the bucks breed for a week or two. Let the people that hunt with ML that can shoot across a fourty rod field hunt with the '06 guys. Better management = Better deer herd. We need to get the mind set from killing to hunting.

[Mojostick]

Chain,
Firearms season was expected to have more hunters because it was a Friday opener, giving a 3 day weekend. At one time, MDNR mistakenly thought mid-week openers had the most hunters. They have since discovered that that data was flawed and the computer sales system shows weekend openers have far more participation. Prior to firearms opener, deer tag sales were up 6% from last year and likely up some 10% plus over the past few mid-week openers.

One must keep in mind, the Nov.15, 16 day firearms/rifle season was set in 1925. That's before an archery season even existed and when most of the LP was closed to deer hunting, because the market hunters and poaching just about wiped out the southern herd. Back then, people had to travel to the UP, which could take days. Now, some only 10% of Michigan deer hunters go to the UP. And even then, very few hunt the entire season there. It's a totally different hunting world now.

Given all the seasons we have now, weapons improvements, high tech gadgets, high tech clothing, ATV's, etc, it's my opinion that the archery season should be extended by a month or two to increase participation opportunity and the firearms season should be cut in half to a week and moved to a later date, when the rut is winding down, thus decreasing vulnerability of bucks during daylight hours, from the 20 hunters per mile with .300 mags and 200-250 yard shotguns and muzzleloaders.

[tradgreenhorn]

Wow guys I just had time to check my post,and can't believe all the response. Things in michigan needs to change, for the better of all deer hunters regardless of what weapon one choose's to use. Just got home from work and getting ready to shower and de-sent myself. north west winds will put me and my zipper sxt  in a tree stand at the south end of our lease. have a great Thanks Giving. Don

[Jon Stewart]

QDM info that was posted may be good for private hunting ranches and  private property owners. It would be easier for them to control and regulate.  There is a lot of fancy information posted above about QDM. BUT with all that written, and  with most of the hunting property  owned by the State and Federal government, how are they going to regulate QDM on State and Federal lands . My thoughts are doe permits and antler restrictions.

So what I got out of what has been written about QDM is that it is for private property owners.

[Mojostick]

Jon,

A few things to consider. In Michigan, roughly 75% of all deer hunters hunt private land, as owners or guests. Only 17% hunt public land exclusively. So, just as the surveys show nearly 70% want changes, we're never going to make 100% of 650,000 of us happy.

QDM on public land is impossible if the habitat isn't improved. Habitat improvement in places like northern Michigan public land is an essential cornerstone of QDM.

That said, there's certainly room for improvement in herd management and hunter management on public lands.

While public land only hunters have to do some legwork to find better public lands, having over 7,000,000 of acres of public land to use for a $25 over the counter tag is about as good a bargain one can ever find.

I would ask, if you aren't happy with the regulations, since regulations produce the hunting you have, how would you change things?

Think of this, Michigan has the most public land east of the Mississippi, but when top deer states for the public land hunter are mentioned, Michigan is off the list. It's our regulations that are most responsible for this.

Here's a good list of best public land places to bow hunt...
   http://www.outdoorlife.com/node/45140  

Think of this, what is widely considered the best public land deer hunting in Michigan? Many would argue that it's the USFS Shiawassee Refuge. But what's funny about the Shiawassee is, it's the most regulated public land in the state. No baiting, one deer only, no driving deer, no motors, etc.

So what Michigan public land doesn't need is more lax management for over 100,000 deer hunters to make up for themselves. Michigan public land needs more management, not less. We've done the "I'll decide for myself on public land" deal in Michigan for the past 100 years. As they say, how's that working out for everyone?

What the majority of Michigan deer hunters are open to is trying some changes to rules some have thought to be etched in stone. Why can't we try a different firearms opener? Why can't we open bow season on Sept 1? If it's too warm, don't go. But southern hunters seem to manage in the heat. Why can't we bow hunt in January again? If we're going to have two buck tags, why not try APR's on both? Why not make hunter-choice statewide, where if a hunter wants to kill a spike he can, but he only gets one buck tag, not two? Why not try opening firearms season on the Friday before Thanksgiving? Why not limit baiting to corn only, if beets and carrots keep too much saliva on them, for TB transmission? If we have two buck tags, why not make it so you can only use one in bow season and one in firearms?

My point is, there's lots of room to try things other states have success with, even if for 3-5 year trial periods. If so many are unhappy, you'd think they'd be the first to want to try something different. We know what the current rules will do for the public land only deer hunter.

On the other side of the coin, one could argue than Michigan public land hunters have it pretty good. Here's a random look at the kill breakdown, from 2006. Keeping in mind that there's very little public land in the southern lower. If 17% hunt public land exclusively, making up 16% of the buck kill is an interesting factoid. Granted, some hunters hunt both, but the reality is, the majority hunt private land and private land only...

Private Land/Public Land Deer harvest, Antlered Deer, 2006

 Area.....Public%...Private%
 ---------------------------
 West UP....33%.......67%
 East UP.....31%.......69%
 NE LP........26%.......74%
 NW LP.......23%.......77%
 Sag Bay....10%........90%
 SW LP........7%........93%
 SC LP.........6%........94%
 SE LP.........8%........92%

 UP...........32%........68%
 NLP..........23%.......77%
 SLP............7%.......93%

 Statewide..16%.......84%

[Chain2]

One thing that you can control on private land is pressure. I think. to me, that makes all the difference. Pressured deer act alot different and my area has been pressured alot lately. I am going to try and find another area but work schedule makes it tough. I am 25 mins from work to home and then one hour to get on stand. I have bow areas closer but they get blasted in rifle season. I won't see a deer there until Christmas. Maybe that is why the Shiwassee area is so good. lack of pressure.

[Jon Stewart]

Guess I am confused?? Are there QDM management areas in Michigan?  And if so who and how are they regulated? I am not against QDM. We had antler restrictions at my place for years.  I just don't have the funds to properly manage my 35 acres but I am trying.

[Mojostick]

No, there are no QDM area's. If anything, about the best we can hope for is area's where the majority of the land, public and private, is being managed in a better way than we've had over the last 20 years. That will involve a mix of habitat management and hunter/trigger management. If one is a public land only hunter, I'd suggest you get active with USFS/MDNR and going to public meetings when they consider forest management plans. Public land hunters need to make their voices heard or the tree-huggers will do it for you. The tree-huggers will be at the meetings.  

Think of it, the Sierra Club held up all aspen cutting on all Huron-Manistee for nearly a decade with endless lawsuits. Stopping aspen cutting on public land is stopping all new growth of aspen and is a killer for hunting quality. Luckily, the Sierra Club is done with those suits, for the short term.

Try these links...
  http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-30301_30505---,00.html  

The NRC has public comments every month...
  http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-65134_65145---,00.html  

This is 2 years old, but a good starting place for fed land...
 http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPyhQoY6BdkOyoCAGixyPg!/?navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=STELPRDB5269056&navid=180000  000000000&pnavid=null&ss=110904&position=News&ttype=detail

[Steve O]

Mojo, you have a lot of great statistics. Unfortunately they are guess work from "surveys".

You know how many surveys I've been sent in 33 years of being a licensed Michigan deer hunter? ONE.

You know how many COs I've had check me in all that time, this including a decade if intense MI deer hunting from early Sept rifle in Menominee Co. thru early Jan in Lenawee? ONE

I don't know how many deer I have killed in MI. I stopped counting at 50 at least a decade ago. You know how many of those deer were seen by the "legions" of deer spotters at the bridge or on the overpasses? NONE.

Our DNR has NO CLUE how many deer are in the state. They also have NO CLUE how many deer are harvested. You know why Shiawassee is so good?  The OLD refuge manager knew EXACTLY how many deer he had on the property, how many hunters he had, and how many of his deer were killed. It was managed. It has fallen far in the past few years but still is better than most of MI.

I do not disagree with you at all on QDM or proper management. We just are not ever going to have it here. The DNR wants the insurance companies and farmers off their backs. I am glad I realized that years ago. It has allowed me to see some fantastic deer and habitat and not get so frustrated with what MI   could be.

All one has to do to see the potential MI deer have is look at a place like The Sanctuary. Those were MI bucks fed properly and allowed to mature...