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Author Topic: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string  (Read 3588 times)

Online pdk25

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2013, 02:40:00 PM »
If your chronograph is correct, that is pretty special performance for sure.  Here are some numbers that I got using bows setup with string silencers drawn to a measured 29.5" draw length on each shot.

Bow #1
Black Widow MAIII recurve 64" 65# @ 28"
8 strand 450+ string
710 grain arrow
draw length 29.5" expected draw weight 69.5#
GPP 10.2
FPS 181

Bow #2
Black widow MAIII recurve 60" 67# @ 27"
Black Widow string (D97 I think)
670 grain arrow
draw length 29.5" expected draw weight 74.5#
GPP 9.0
FPS 197

Bow #3
Leon Stewart Slammer r/d longbow 66" 71# @ 28"
8 strand 450+ string
715 grain arrow
draw length 29.5" expected draw weight 75.5#
GPP 9.5
FPS 187

Bow #4
RER vortex r/d longbow 62" 56# @ 28"
8 strand 450+ string
571 grain arrow
draw length 29.5" expected draw weight 60.5#
GPP 9.4
FPS 184

Bow #5
Red Wing Slim Line Pro Recurve 58" 45# @ 28"
6 strand 450+ string
530 grain arrow
draw length 29.5" expected draw weight 49.5#
GPP 10.7
FPS 172


Normalized to 9gpp assuming linear curve, which would not be exact:

Bow #1
Black Widow MAIII recurve 64" 65# @ 28"
Adjusted to 9 gpp 192.8

Bow #2
Black widow MAIII recurve 60" 67# @ 27"
Adjusted to 9 gpp 196.9

Bow #3
Leon Stewart Slammer r/d longbow 66" 71# @ 28"
Adjusted to 9 gpp 190.6

Bow #4
RER vortex r/d longbow 62" 56# @ 28"
Adjusted to 9 gpp 188.4

Bow #5
Red Wing Slim Line Pro Recurve 58" 45# @ 28"
Adjusted to 9 gpp 187.6


As you can see, less than 10 fps between these bows which may be largely in part due to differences in strings, silencing material.  The reason that I am a little surprised by your numbers is that you report a 28" inch draw length and are by far outperforming all of my bows using a 28" draw.  Quite a bow, for sure.

Offline deadpool

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2013, 05:01:00 PM »
Guys ill get a chrono test video for you very soon maybe you can spot.something i cant, nonetheless, this bow is still outperforming my 50lb dryad

Offline Mojostick

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2013, 07:42:00 PM »
Keep in mind to shoot what you feel comfortable shooting, no matter the game or weapon, other than dangerous game. I've seen literally 1000's of customers over the years that struggled with too much weight and their shooting suffered a bit because of it. Someone who can shoot 42lbs well is far better in the field than a guy shaking and short drawing with 55lbs.

On a side note from my years in retail, I also think compound shooters are obsessed with speed numbers. So, many buy "speed bows" that are harder to shoot and then they match it with ultra light arrows, when what they really need in a moderate speed bow and heavier arrows, for the real world hunting they will actually be doing. In that same line of thought, I still had the sense that the traditional customers were interested shooting the very max weight they could draw, but they were missing the fact that shooting at the store range, while standing and in a tee shirt is far different than many hunting situations. I did my best to try and talk every customer down 5 pounds, when they bought a longbow or recurve.

What many forget or are unaware of is, under real world hunting, one often has to draw and hold, or they get hung up holding at half draw for a bit, even if they are normally a snap shooter. If the animal suddenly turns or steps behind a tree, one can hold lower weight, if need be.

My dad was a rifle instructor in the USMC. He was a big, big proponent of placement over power. Even though we had .338's, .340 Weatherby's, .375 H&H and even .458's, my dad's favorite round for Grizzly was the .300 Weatherby, which he used on 4 different Grizzly's. I had the luxury of hunting with famed Grizzly guide Clayton Mack. he liked the bigger guns like .338 and up when he didn't know the hunter beforehand, but he told me that he'd allow as low as a 7mm Mag, if he knew the hunter and had the sense of him. That's true for trad bows too. There's guys that can kill about anything with low weight bows.

To me, there is a connection between too much bow and too much rifle. Here's from Chuckhawks...

"Ideal elk cartridges. These are good cartridges to consider if you are buying a rifle specifically for elk hunting and don't mind substantial recoil and muzzle blast. Their principle drawback is that most shooters do mind the recoil and muzzle blast, particularly of the magnums, and simply cannot do their best shooting with these cartridges.
Bullet placement is the most important factor in killing power. (Memorize that sentence!)"

I'm not saying go out and specifically pick a 42lb bow for elk. Not at all. But if one has shoulder issue's, for which conditioning or working out has no impact, if all he/she can shoot accurately is 42lbs, then they can do so on CXP3 class game, as long as they are far more selective than the guy shooting 60lbs. The same is true with deer, where legal. You can kill any deer with a 35lbs recurve, but the shots need to be close and it helps if the animal is completely relaxed. As with choosing the perfectly matched bullet if using a lighter rifle, one must take more care on choosing the right arrow if shooting lower weights.

Anyhow, good luck on whatever you decide.

Online pdk25

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2013, 07:48:00 PM »
Don't take my posts wrong.  I am glad that you are very happy with your bow, and it seems to be performing very well for you.  The fact that it is outperforming your heavier bow speaks volumes.  Go out and kill some stuff with it, and you will have a much better idea of what it is capable of.

Offline Tree man

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2013, 07:49:00 PM »
These questions will probably be debated forever. I've hunted elk with a 57lb recurve and a 42 lb selfbow and they performed equally (I didn't shoot an elk with either one. lol) I have however shot a bunch of other stuff with various draw weights and there has been surprisingly little difference in penetration/lethality. One of the most devastating hits that I ever saw (passed through the chest AND severed a leg bone) came from 42 lb @24inch bow. Saw pics of a bull bison with a 27 inch arrow buried to the fletch from a 47# @26 bow. Etc. Etc. Sharp broadheads, good arrow flight and decent placement are devastating.

Offline Trumpkin the Dwarf

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2013, 03:25:00 PM »
For what it is worth, I draw 32" and pull 68lbs at that length. I also believe elk can be killed with light weight weaponry, given the right circumstances. That said, I view elk as a precious resource. They are something like good friends, of an animal nature obviously, and deserve respect. One certainly can kill an elk with a light bow, but if you intend to do so, you absolutely must have the patience to wait for a short broadside shot. I like a heavy bow because it extends my list of ethical, respectful shots.
Malachi C.

Black Widow PMA 64" 43@32"

Offline Keb

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2013, 06:39:00 PM »
So taking ethical shots because of draw weight is ?? Please explain shots other than broadside and quatering away, so iyou can make other shots due to draw weight?

Offline Keb

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2013, 06:46:00 PM »
That leaves frontal and quartering to. Both risky with any weapon.

So a guy takes a broadside shot with a 42lb bow at 18 yards. A guy shooting 65 lbs takes a slightly quartering to at 29 yards.

Which has the most margin of a wounded animal?

Online pdk25

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2013, 09:34:00 PM »
Leaving this one alone.  It has been discussed frequently on many other threads.

Offline Trumpkin the Dwarf

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2013, 10:32:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by pdk25:
Leaving this one alone.  It has been discussed frequently on many other threads.
I think pdk25 has a good point. That said, my apologies for speaking poorly Keb. I meant to imply that I can take a quartering away or broadside shot at 25-30 yards. Something I would hesitate to do with a low poundage bow on elk. They can run a long ways on one lung.
Malachi C.

Black Widow PMA 64" 43@32"

Offline tracker12

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2013, 09:24:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by David Mitchell:
 
Quote
Originally posted by tecum-tha:
A 21 year old should be able to shoot a 55lbs bow with ease, unless there are some serious health issues. Your bow is a deer bow and small game bow and that's about it. Anything like elk, hogs, bear etc. is gambling. Were there animals killed with light bows. Yes. But no one tells about the animals which did not get killed with light equipment because of inadequate penetration when the arrow did not hit perfectly.
Nor do we hear of the animals that were wounded and got away because the person shooting had bought into the "heavy is better" thinking and shot an elk or other game with a bow he could not handle when perhaps with lighter gear the proper shot placement would have occurred.  It works both ways. [/b]
\\

Unfortunately we have a lot of big game that are equally lost by hunters pulling to much weight and not hitting where they aim.  I have gone to a bunch of Trad shoots the last two years and  see guys that can't even get close to anchor trying to pull a 55# bow back.  Add in cold weather, layers of clothes and excitement and it all spells disaster. A casual friend kills his elk every year with a 42# @ 27 Chastaine and a 650 grain arrow with a big 275 grain VPA 3 blade up front. He limits his range to 20yards.
T ZZZZ

Offline tracker12

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2013, 09:32:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mojostick:
This thread illustrates what Dan Toelke told me about how most guys benefit from going lower in weight because the working part of the limb on the lower weight bows usually gets achieved and it doesn't as much when guys try to shoot heavy weights.

Dan said he gets customers all the time who shoot a 55lb bow and then marvel when they shoot a 47lb bow and the 47lb bow shows more speed thru the chrono.

From my many years in the sporting goods business and especially my time at in Cabela's archery dept, it just goes back to my firm opinion that most bow hunters, trad and compound alike, are about 8-10lbs overbowed.
Nicely Said!
T ZZZZ

Offline jrchambers

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2013, 12:06:00 PM »
or 8-10 pounds out of shape

Offline Bjorn

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2013, 01:59:00 PM »
jrchambers posted

"or 8-10 pounds out of shape"

Nicely put!    :archer2:

Offline Mojostick

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2013, 02:11:00 PM »
Or totally ignorant to shoulder issue's some have to the point of making stupid comments not worthy of Tradgang, nor seeming to understand a whole lot about what a 40lb bow can do...       :(      


     

Offline jrchambers

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2013, 02:40:00 PM »
:banghead:   I knew better

Offline tarponnut

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2013, 03:01:00 PM »
That set-up would get enough penetration to kill MOST hogs with a very sharp two blade broadhead.imho I have no idea on Elk,though.

Online dnovo

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2013, 08:41:00 PM »
I can jum in and stir the pot a bit.
Those are very impressive chrono numbers with that weight arrow. Impressive enough for mem to do 2 things. First I want to question those numbers and second I need to check out Treadway bows!
A lot of people question hunting elk with that weight bow and other people question those people for questioning them.
My thoughts are that if that is all I can pull to hunt elk, I'm not going elk hunting.
If this young man has this bow with those impressive numbers, then why not ,at age 21, work up to a 50-55# bow with even more impressive numbers.
There is no reason for his accuracy to suffer if he works into a heavier bow. He has a year. And I'm sure he could shoot a 50#+ bow every bit as well, so why not do it?
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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2013, 09:00:00 PM »
I watched two guys shooting the same BW recurve through a chrono that had virtually the same draw, with the same arrows. Their speeds were 15 pfs apart on the four arrows that I watched and it looked to be the same draw lengths. They had higher numbers than those that were posted about BW speeds ealier in this thread, however, I did not know the arrow weight they were shooting. Some people get more out of bows than others, even if the numbers were a bit off, they were still enough faster than the heavier bow and if it was the same chrono that he compared them with, logic says take the faster more accurate bow.

Offline jrchambers

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Re: whats pushing it with a 42lb treadway longbow and sbd string
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2013, 09:26:00 PM »
deadpool you may have sold a couple of treadways.  those are some crazy numbers but I belive them, some bows just don't fall out yet with that weight.  I shoot a similar design bow 60lbs at 30.5 and I got low 170s with a 760gr arrow, but I am more consistant with a 600 gr arrow going 188 to 191.

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