Challenges - Different Approaches, Different Results

[John146]

Let me first qualify that though I am a traditional archer I begrudge no one their choice of equipment whether gun, compound, etc. But I just got to thinking a few days ago about something and I wanted to share. Hope this makes sense.

I have watched recently some hunting shows (not bashing here)where guys were shooting rifles and killing animals at extreme yardages. I also watched and read of some folks shooting some animals with compounds at extreme yardages. I began to ask why? Why is there the desire to do that and I had the thought that maybe in some folks minds this is their way of increasing the level of challenge in the area of hunting that they do and the equipment they use.

People develop equipment capable of shooting at these extreme ranges so they are not just using the same stuff and trying to kill an animal at 800 yards; they actually manufacture quality products that allow someone to do this pretty effieciently with a level of practice.

Some would say this is all about just making it easier and I guess that has validity in some cases too but I think that we hunters have an inate need to make things more challenging when we have somewhat mastered a way of doing something.

Then it hit me and when it did it made me sad and glad all at the same time! In all these cases the hunters proximity to the animal pursued gets farther and farther away. Answering the need to increase the level of challenge is moving most hunters farther away from the game they pursue. I am not sure they realize what is happening but it is most certainly happening.

Traditional archery moves you in the exact opposite direction. You go from shooting deer at 200 yards with a rifle to 100 yards with a muzzleloader, to 40 yards with a compound to 20 yards with a recurve, longbow or selfbow.

Stepping back and looking at the big picture we trad archers are moving in the exact opposite direction from most others who hunt; from killing animals that you can barely see with your naked eye to being able to count eyelashes.

Maybe there is a certain satisfaction that comes from shooting an elk at 600 yards; that is one hell of a shot, but I can't imagine it being like an elk bugling in your face at 20 yards. These two things are worlds apart IMHO.

That intimate encounter with the animals we pursue is such a gift and I am so glad that I am getting closer and closer and closer.

[Bowwild]

You make a lot of sense Todd. I especially like your tolerant tone regarding other hunters and their motives.

I wonder the same things as you. When I'm surfing and come across one of those long-range hunting shows I watch for a few minutes, sort of like eyes being drawn to a train wreck. I see no difference in what they are doing than shooting an inanimate target.

Maybe shooting targets on the range has become boring and they want to up the ante with a target that might move? Maybe they want something more interesting to show their friends than a paper target or tin can with holes in it?

Maybe:
1. They substitute woodsmanship with marksmanship?
2. They have never experienced a close-up encounter with the game they hunt so they don't know what they are missing?

I remember an antelope hunt I was on in WY. I was bowhunting during the rifle season. Some fellows pulled up right in front of my blind (public land) and set up a tripod with a .50 rifle. They were scoping antelope that I could barely see. A wildlife officer checked them out. We saw the officer later that day. He had followed these fellows all day until one of them failed to put on orange when he exited the truck. The officer was so disgusted with their apparent lack of respect for the game they hunted he wanted to write them up for something -- he finally did.

[gringol]

The other day I saw a video of a 12 yr old kid shooting an elk at 1360 yds and I thought the same thing.  Pretty impressive shot, but how much cooler would it have been for that kid to close the distance and slip an arrow between his ribs from 15 yds?  Distance makes things less personal, if that's what you're into, great, but it ain't for me.

[D.J. Carr]

Somewhere I saw a quote.  "An archer figures out how to shoot further accurately, a bowhunter figures out how to get as close as possible to ensure his accuracy".

[Manitoba Stickflinger]

It's mostly due to the fact that it's easier to fine tune high power shooting skills than it is to fine tune hunting skills. As people regress in their skills of pursuing game they improve in other areas to compensate.

Personally I'd rather be a hunter than a shooter…because at that distance there is no hunt involved!

[Stumpkiller]

To each his own.

I realize my hunting knowledge is very isolated - I haven't hunted outside NY State and 99% has been within a few miles of my home.  Locally the whitetail are the perfect quarry for traditional bows.  They hang around in thick cover during the day.

Out of curiosity I did some calculations years ago comparing how many square feet a hunter "controls" with various weapons: a traditional bow of 25 yards, a slug shotgun or flintlock with round lead ball of 80 yards, an iron-sighted rifle of 150 yards and a scoped rifle of 250 yards.  It works out: 17,670 sq ft, 180,950 sq ft, 636,154 sq ft and 1,767,095 sq ft.  So a scoped rifle (even at "only" 250 yard range) has 100 times more area of kill zone vs. a traditional bow.  Not hard to see why success is sooooo sweet when it happens with a trad bow.

[Stephengiles]

As disgusting as I think most of those shows are, I will say that I think most of it comes from the fact that these people have to produce. They go to distant places with only a few days to get it done. I also think that they are persuaded to show what their sponsored equipment is capable of. See a 250 yard shot you'll see a range finder and scope commercial in the next two minutes. I wouldn't want to have a hunting show because I don't like other people or companies telling me what I should do. I haven't killed any thing this year and I've only got about 2 weeks left. Nobody wants to see that on tv. Be glad when turkey season gets here though...I've had toms in bow range more than once. Of course then the toms will disappear and I'll have doe's eating out of my hand. Go figure.  

[John146]

I know that when I read on Trad Gang that someone just switched to traditional equipment I almost always find myself wishing that they get a deer, elk, turkey.... in their lap because I know they will never be the same again!

[Rob W.]

A few years ago a buddy and I finally figured out how to fish a local lake. Day in and day out we could fill both livewells if we wanted. That lasted for a few weeks and suddenly neither of us wanted to go there. We switched species and fished a much larger lake without much success for the rest of the year.

The anticipation and challenge were gone and we moved on. Trad bowhunting is something I know I will never master and has so many different avenues to explore that there will always be anticipation and challenge. I love it.

Rob

[Mark Baker]

When will we stop apologizing for equipment and methodology, as if choices don't matter?

If you want to target shoot, then shoot at targets.   But shooting at game at 1000 yards is not hunting.  Period.   Not ONLY is it not hunting, but consequences are real, and they hurt ALL of us as hunters.  

On "TV" we get to see the clean kills, or the implied ones.   And these guys are supposed to be the "good guys".....but what of the average Joe's out there, trying to replicate what they saw on TV?   How many will make that difficult trek across that heavily timbered, cliff faced canyon to follow up what "appears" to be a miss?

It's a shame, that as our equipment gets better, our values and ethics don't.   A "poor judgement" hunter, will always be one, regardless of his choice of equipment, except now, at longer ranges, his "misjudgements" are amplified, and not followed up.   And the world witnesses.

If we want the same opportunities for our kids, we better start speaking up.  Most of this crap and these actions are consequence of our silence...they become legal, because we dare not oppose them for being branded "elite"....or we simply fail to care enough to speak up.   A lot has changed in the very recent past with this stuff, and these "advancements" as well as our tolerance of them.    Wake up folks.  

I am saying this to everyone, not to pick a fight here....and with all respect for your choices....but I for one and fed up.   So are many others.  

As fathers we preach and teach to our children.  As leaders we speak up, even when we know it's not the "politically correct" thing to do.  As trad bowhunters, we hold ourselves to a higher standard, both in our challenges, AND our respect for the opportunities and resources we are privileged to enjoy.  

Challenge comes with discipline, and respect for the game plays right into our self-control, and our willingness to let the animals win once in a while.  What threshold do you place on your own tolerance for this stuff?  When it's too late?

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Some people go in the woods with the "have to Kill something at all costs" mentality.  They dont feel successful unless they kill.  The tools they choose make it easier to make that happen.

Personally I dont call shooting Game at long distances hunting rather just shooting.

Unfortuantely we are all lumped in the same category as "hunters".

I feel sorry for the guys who never get a chance to have game so close, they can count eye lashes! Unfortunately they dont know what they are missing. Something tells me some dont care.

I have nothing against the person who wants meat for the freezer and chose whatever weapon in tehir respective seasons but I do feel teh ethics and Values Mark mentions must be paramount in the modern day sportsman.

Regrettably, I feel it lacks in many and I feel its ourresponsibility as Hunters to lead by example and speak up when we see people acting otherwise.

[Nathan Killen]

Amen brother ! It all about the challenge of getting close....trying to out smart the animal and make a good shot !

[jrchambers]

this makes me think of fishing on the river. there are those few days where you cant stop from hooking up.  there are two kinds of people. some that will work that hole all day long and see how many they can catch, and others that get bored with that well known hole and decide to lean something new while the bite is on.

[Mojostick]

Not to play Devil's Advocate, but my dad was a rifle instructor in the USMC and I grew up "tinkering" with some long range rifle shooting. My dad shot some VERY long range stuff. For those who become proficient at long range rifle shooting, there is a lot of skill involved as opposed to random luck created by "gadgets". When my dad was alive, I shot a couple nice whitetails in the Texas Hill Country at around 400 yards with him by my side. While 400 yards with a .30 cal. is no big deal to some experienced rifle shooters, a really nice 8pt that I shot at 340 yards, prone position with my dad sprawled out next to me on the Texas Hill rocks, using my binoculars as a rest, remains among my greatest hunting memory with my dad. I'm also very proud of the shot. It was a product of a lifetime of practice, not a fluke created by gadgets. Again, just playing Devils Advocate.

[Bowjunkie]

Compared to hunting within pouncing distance with stickbows, long range shooting of game is akin to being outside their world, shooting in.

[jrchambers]

I know what it takes to hit a animal at 500 with a rifle, practice shooting your rifle.  then practice by shooting in real life hunting situations.
I know what it takes to hit a animal at 20 with a long bow,  practice shooting your bow,  practice getting within 20, then practice in real life hunting situations.
the second of the two in rifle hunting is hard.
all three in bow hunting are really hard

[Keb]

This video does the best job I have seen in explaining it.

[John146]

Keb, That's good stuff right there!!

[Keb]

It's no longer about that kill, while that's are main goal to collect trophies, you get a wild animal on his turff in spitting distance you won no matter the outcome. I did not harvest an animal this year, but had encounters I can not explain, 150 inch deer at 5 yards on the ground no blind eye level for over 5 minutes. I was looking into this deers eyes. I would have never set up like that with any other weapon, to get that close or have that encounter.

If we wanted a body count non of us would be on here!!!!

[JB74nola]

I've been target shooting all my life. I started out in summer camp shooting fiberglass longbows, switched to guns and rifles after I out grew summer camp. I'm almost 40 now, I've never gone out hunting, I've been perfectly happy target shooting. I didn't have anything against hunting, just never had the urge to go shoot wildlife, just didn't see much sport in it. Sure there is challenge in hitting a kill shot from great distance, but I don't look down on any that think difirently than I do. This year I got to talking to a friend about trad bowhunting and getting up close and personal with something I've spotted, and stalked appealed to me. Here I am about a month later, I've got a bow. I've had my nose buried in forums and articles learning everything I can about stance, form, arrows, and feral pigs, and I'm hoping to get my first hog this year. I still have a lot of work ahead of me. Seems as tho the lessons I got on the bow have stuck with me over the years, of that I'm glad. There's sport in stalking within 20 yards and taking game, not to mention the tasty sustenance that it provides, truly a series of challenges to overcome! Those challenges are the hunt for me, with out them it's still just target practice IMHO.