Challenges - Different Approaches, Different Results

[John146]

It has been enjoyable to read others perspectives on this subject and in some ways it proved out what I thought about challenges.(Having been a fishing guide and tournament bass fisherman I can especially relate to what Rob W said. Finding them was the challenge!)

What follows will be my attempt to explain and thus answer Mark Bakers post and in your words - not trying to pick a fight. I see nothing in my post that apologizes for equipment and methods. I think my post actually highlights that principle very clearly. This being a traditional bowsite I chose to state the context in which my revelation came, which is the only reason I mentioned the TV shows, rifles, etc. I just had never seen it from that perspective before and my purpose for the post was to hopefully encourage those who have taken the traditional journey to stick with it and appreciate it BECAUSE the choice of our equipment produces by necessity the chance of close encounters and that is far better IMHO than a kill at any other yardage no matter how far but especially at extreme ranges.

Yet, I am not ignorant of the reality that many folks do not see it my way and there is sometimes a very good reason for that. I will not walk up to a man who just shot an animal at 400 yards and tell him, "That's not hunting!" I may however say this, "You think that's a rush? Crawl up to 20 yards and see if you can keep your heart in your chest!" The reason why is that it may be someone like Mojostick who shot a deer at what we call extreme yardages but I think it is obvious when you read his post that doing it on the side of his father was what made it special. Heck, I can still smell the gumbo when I think back to my dad taking me, my brothers and sister duck hunting. We could have been shooting slingshots for all I cared - what mattered was that I was with my dad. Your comment about fathers handing this down Mark, touches me more deeply than you know.

Where I live and hunt it is not even possible to shoot a deer at 1000 yards even if you had the rifle to do it so I understand you guys out west are the ones that actually see this stuff so its personal for you and I for one appreciate passion. I cannot count the times on my lease in Mississippi that I would come out from a hunt and see a man in a truck, parked on the side of a public road, (my leased property was both sides of that road) and he would have a young man, presumably a son or grandson in the truck with him. They would be wearing hunters orange and have a rifle leaning on the seat waiting for the dogs to come off my property. To that young man, that will be at least part of his defintion of "hunting" and because he was with his father or grandfather there is probably not a whole lot I could say to change his mind. I wonder if he couldn't sleep the night before just like me when my dad said, "Tomorrow we are going hunting."

Many of us come to this traditional archery thing in different ways. I had no one showing me, telling me or suggesting to me a recurve or longbow. I was on the ground with a compound and on 2 occasions had bucks under 20 yards and having to breakover and line up the pins on my compound prevented me from taking either of those deer. I thought that if I would have had a recurve I could have killed them both because I could get the shot off quicker. My introduction came out of a want to be a more successful hunter when given a chance like that. I did not have some purist philosophy suddenly break forth in my pysche. For whatever reason, I am just thankful, I don't know how else to say it because I could have gone down a different road and not have experienced the things I have had the privilege to, in this, the only life I have to live.

I believe the increase in participation in traditional archery that we see comes in many ways, shapes and forms and a need to increase the challenge is to many THE reason they pick up a recurve or longbow. I hope to be discerning enough to say the right thing at the right time to encourage someone to take the ride of his life that is Traditional Archery!

[gringol]

Todd, I don't think you we're apologizing, but maybe mark is right, we are too tolerant of long range killing.  Myself included.  Shooting an animal from half a mile away isn't hunting, it's killing.  Sure, it takes skill, but not hunting skill.  maybe we should be more outraged.  I don't know exactly where the line between hunting and killing is, but I've seen a few videos recently that definitely cross it.

[Dan Bonner]

Hunting is supposed to be fun. Killing an animal is not necessary to feed our families and hasn't been for at least a couple generations. I believe people should hunt whatever way gives them the most enjoyment within the law.

I support the rights of any hunter regardless of chosen weapon. That said I have not killed a big game animal with anything other than a home made stick bow in 10 years.

Remember that what we do is not for everyone. The very old and the very young have a difficult time participating. The more hunters that participate the more licenses are sold and more money goes to the states to manage herds. The TV shows bring more money to the sport and they have had a positive impact on game management  and the hunting economy. When more money goes into the economy from hunting the hunting lobby has more power to see that our rights are protected. We should all stick together. Morals and ethics are personal, laws are in place to protect game. I think belittling another's choice of hardware drives a wedge into our power to protect our right to hunt.

Let me tell you about my hunting season. I killed only one doe this year. In years passed I generally average about 5 deer all with a stick bow. I spent most of my season hunting with my two younger daughters 11 &14 years old. They both killed their first buck on my land this year with guns. I consider this my best season yet! Between my brother and I we have gotten 8 friends and relatives' kids their first deer on our land with guns. I get just as fired up watching a kid kill a doe and coaching them through it as I get killing a P&Y by myself.

What we do is harder. Some folks don't have the time and ability to do it but I believe we need them all in the woods to preserve our heritage and right to hunt.

Bonner

[achigan]

To each his own.
Good article in the latest F&S.  In the story: "The new Long Range" Petzal asks a range officer what percentage of the general public can hit a deer size target reliably at 300 yds, never mind 400. "He smiled, held up his thumb and middle finger joined to form a zero. You might want to think about that."
  What we see on the tube is ALWAYS edited.

[-snypershot317-]

I personally agree with what most have said. Even when i was a gun hunter, i felt that i had to be with in 200 yds to shoot the animal. i chose this distance because i felt that it gave the animal time to spook or scent me or move...ive never understood the want of a long range hunt. as a hunter i choose to be up close and personal with my quarry, the more i mess up the more i learn, the sweeter the success of hunt is. i guess i choose to hunt animals rather than snipe them as if i was in the army.
Mojostick, i think that is a very cool memory with your dad. if i may share i also have a fond memory with my dad only we were at much shorter ranges and with smooth bore shotguns..needless to say even though i missed a really nice deer, i learned a lot lessons that day because we were hunting close ranges (no less than 50 yards). theres a sort of responsibilty that goes with how we hunt and i too am planning on raising my daughter with ethics and woodsmanship and to pass along the knowledge because it was passed on to me from my father from his father and so on.

[Orion's Quiver]

My first hunting experience, I shot from a single-shot rifle handed to me hastily as I was the only one in the right position to take the shot. The doe dropped at 240 yards and never got up. The year after that, I shot at and missed a bear at 50 yards. Not because I couldn't shoot, but because I had stalked it for over an hour uphill and I was pretty much pumped out and could hardly breathe, let alone breathe quietly! I realized I needed to work on my fitness level!

Then last year, I shot a Moose at 40 yards and dropped it right there. Well actually it rolled down a steep hill, but that's another story.  This is one that I had called for almost a whole day. This moose though, gave me confidence that I could actually get pretty close to an animal. And I thought to myself, why not try with a bow?

I told myself that I will give myself a year of training with a bow, and so here I am, sucking up as much information as possible. I have a borrowed bow, a 40lb Browning takedown recurve. Some arrows that spined at 60-65 lbs but somehow shoot great out of the bow, and I'm about to order shafts and feathers etc to make my own fine-tuned set.

If I can get good at it, and I really don't know what "good" is yet, I will hunt in 2014 with this bow. If not, I'll pick up my rifle, take out the scope and go iron and give that a go.

I'm really enjoying archery though. Its something I can do in my backyard and with my children. Right now, I can put 6 arrows in an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper from 11 yards (the width of my backyard, unfortunately) quite consistently. I know I need to practice more at longer distances, but I'm confident that with practice I will get better.

Hopefully, sometime around October this year, I can report back with my first bow harvest. Wish me luck on my journey! ;-)

[ron w]

A friend of mine calls it the "gotta get one syndrome".......for some there is no cure.

[Jock Whisky]

My personal opinion on a long range kill is that it is damn fine shooting...but it is not hunting. Again, it's just my opinion, nothing more