Michigan deer

[aim small...release]

Hello fellow stick and stringers of the mitten. No offense to any non residents this topic actusl could use your help to. i am 29 years old and have been bow hunting for 16 years and have harvested 11 bucks all with wheels unfortunately because i didnt sell mine until 2 years ago. anyhow where i grew up i was lucky to see 5 deer a season so u better believe if i saw horn i was shootin. well i now live in better deer area atleast i would think. theres crops bedding all tbey need and weve been doin QDMA for 4 years all around but i only saw 4 bucks and only one that had the 4 on one side rule but he was to far for my recurve. i ask u as fellow bow hunters what to do. do i continue to do my part and follow these rules or start releasing arrows because to me any deer is a trophy,but i see what you guys get in ohio kansas iowa wiscobnsin ect. and wonder if our herd will reach tht potential. i do want to add i am a hunter who does hisvresearch cameras, scouting yr round. i jyst want to be able to hunt mature deer. thanks for any input

[splaker19]

I live and hunt in the northern lower michigan, where this year was the first year for point restrictions by the state and my first year going traditional, I took a small doe, and had to pass on a spike buck less than ten yards, because those are the rules, I think everyone needs to play by the rules or laws set for the property their on or they should find some place else to go. that said I've seen good things from the antler restrictions on the east side of the northern lower that have been in effect for 4 or 5 years, so maybe just be patient.

[Orion]

I think you can get the wrong impression of how many big deer are shot by us or anyone else.  Of course, magazine covers and archery gear marketers always print pix of big deer, and a number of folks on here periodically, sometimes regularly, take big deer and post pix.  However, that's a small percentage of the folks who are hunting deer.  There are about 40,000 trad bowhunters on this site. 50 pix of big bucks seems like a lot, but it's only .1% of the bowhunters on this site, for example.
 
Regardless, to kill big deer, you need to pass up little deer. But most importantly, you need to hunt where they are. The hunting pressure may be too great to allow deer to mature in your area.  Maybe nutrition is a problem.  Difficult to say.  

I'm not a fan of QDM.  It and its associated "deer and habitat enhancement efforts" domesticates and dumbs down the deer,  and has about the same effect on hunters.  Regardless, for it to work, it needs to be practiced over large areas.  If your neighbors shoot the first bucks they see, including those you're trying to nurse to maturity, you're never going to have a lot of big bucks on the area that you hunt.

Taking mature bucks isn't easy.  If it were, everyone would be doing it. All you can do is keep at it, be selective, and, most importantly, hunt where mature bucks live. That may involve some travel.  Good luck.

[Gottabow]

X2..what Orion said.

[Steve O]

The Michigan deer herd will never reach its potential. Too many people, to many rifles with a Nov. 15 opener, too many cheaters, and a DNR that only cares about maximizing revenue.

[rix2]

X2 ..What Steve O said.

[riverrat 2]

X3.

[D.J. Carr]

I agree with Orion 100%
I grew up and still hunt in Pa. which adopted an antler restriction 10 years ago.  I feel it has been a detriment to deer hunting in general. In Pa. junior hunters (under 16) can still shoot smaller buck. The habitat in the deep forrest/ Mtn. areas is only capable of producing a certain size and a certain number of what is now a "legal buck".

[Dave Pagel]

How do you really feel Steve?

I agree that as stated above there are many factors working against our growing of big bucks consistently.  That being said there are pockets that seem to produce more regularly than others and probably will require paying a lease or buying some ground.

Personally, I am not as concerned with huge bucks as a great experience.  I have leased a great farm in southern Michigan for a few years and I am taking a new approach next year.  I should close on my own piece of ground in the northern lower peninsula at the end of January.  There are fewer deer and the bucks are smaller, but it was set up by one of the top habitat people in the Midwest with access trails, food plots and a plan for other improvements. I will now have a place to hunt deer and turkeys as I see fit until I can't anymore.  The first 100 inch deer I take will be a monumental day.

D.P.

[Jon Stewart]

At least you saw deer.  The last two years for us have been the worst.

Need to put an end to the early/youth seasons and early gun doe seasons and get back to the basics BUT it is pretty obvious the DNR is more concerned about  the dollar.  The seem to come up with a new scheme every year to get funds and the deer herds are getting worse and worse.

[aim small...release]

I didnt mean there are tonz of big bucks shot out of state I understand it takes effort and time I just meant you dont see guys comein from iowa or kansas to book a hunt in michigsn or to hunt our overcrowded trigger happy state land its just a observation of mine i appologize if thats how i came across. With that said we have the nutrition and numbers of guys doin qdm but just not much results maybe it id all these doe seasons and youth hunts and nov 15.

[Mojostick]

Michigan, as a whole, will never match other states in antler size. The biggest reason is our poor sandy soils, statewide. We also have tougher winters.

However,, Michigan can produce very large bodied trophy deer, if they are allowed to reach maturity. A 120" class rack on a 200lb deer is a trophy is anyone's eyes.

With that said, soils aren't Michigan's main issue. Our problems are man made. Michigan typically/traditionally kills both more yearling bucks and a higher percentage of yearling bucks than any other state in the nation. That is due to several factors, two main ones being we open firearms season at peak rut and we have a tag system that allows anyone, anywhere to kill two bucks in any season.

Here's the numbers...
States With Highest % of Yearling Bucks Harvested

1. Michigan – 64%

2. New Jersey – 59%

3. New York – 55%

4. Maryland – 53%

5. Virginia – 49%

So, what the majority of Michigan hunters is looking for isn't trying to be like Ohio or Iowa, we'd like to be more like even Virginia, where there's a better chance of seeing a basket rack, 2 year old 100 class 8pt.

Take my property for example. I have 160 acres and my buddy has 40, but we're in the Big Rapids/Bitely/White Cloud triangle. While it's an agriculture area, it's mostly poor sands planted with field corn and hay for the local dairy farms. Anyone familiar with the area knows that hunting pressure is intense, where up to 80% of the harvest is yearling bucks some years.

This past year, I never set eyes on a 2 year old buck. That's this past YEAR, not season. I never saw a 2 year old buck driving around in summer, scouting, in the headlights, all the time hunting, nothing.

We still have lots of deer. I saw 6 yearling bucks on rifle opener, although 3 of those 6 never survived opening day, since I know my neighbors shot them from talking to them and I assume the others probably didn't survive the season either.

So, Michigan will never be like the low pressure states with great soil. But Michigan should at least be as good as Michigan can be. Our present deer hunting situation is man made, thru decades of squeezing the stone for another drop of blood. The DNR has bent to public pressure for decades and tried to keep hunters happy with quantity over quality and now we seem to have neither in many area's.

In a state with some 300,000 bow hunters and some 650,000 firearms hunters, where baiting is legal to boot, the days of allowing anyone and everyone to kill two bucks is so 1980's and 1990's.

Our problem is the DNR is funded thru license dollars, so the 2 buck limit is here to stay. Since the 2 buck limit is here to stay, the only way to lower yearling buck harvest is to set antler restrictions to try and protect 50% of yearlings.

What else is here to stay is that deer numbers will never again be allowed to explode like they did in the 1980's and 90's. If we're going to have less deer, then manage for quality instead of a small herd, still with only a few small, young bucks.

If people don't like APR's, the best bet is to change how DNR is funded. I suggest that ALL Michigan residents should pay for our natural resources. So, instead of license sales being the funding mechanism for MDNR, the setup should be that everyone who has a drivers license and license plate pay $5 to $10 for each one and all that money funds MDNR. That way, even if hunter numbers fall, and that appears inevitable, the state still has stable funds coming in to fund the DNR.

[aim small...release]

well put. thank you for that response i have hunted that ares over in kent city area

[Mojostick]

Here's a list of some Michigan numbers posted on another site. While the numbers of yearling buck harvest are falling, they still remain very high compared to other states. Oddly enough, it's bow hunters who really put the heat on yearling bucks, percentage wise...

Statewide yearling buck % of harvest by season


Year   Firearms    Archery

2003     64%         74%
2004     61%         70%
2005     61%         72%
2006     66%         72%
2007     61%         68%
2008     59%         67%
2009     49%         64%
2010     55%         64%

[J.T.]

It's a personal choice on which bucks to shoot or pass, you need to do what makes you happy if your happy with any legal buck shoot that one or if your only going to be happy with a big one wait for that one.  The most important thing is to have fun.  I'm not a big fan of the way Michigan's deer herd is managed but all is not lost there is still great hunting to be had you just have to work harder than everyone else.  We have lots of public hunting ground and even though we have many hunters you can still find solitude and deer if your willing to work for it.  I hunt state land in a heavily hunted northern Michigan county (missaukee)and have only seen 3 other hunters during gun and bow season other than those with me in the last 17 years.  The spots I hunt require extra work to get to (walking over a mile, canoeing, portage over beaver dams ect..) and most hunters won't go through the work to get there.  Some years I see a lot of deer and some years very few but most years I am able to get an opportunity and a buck and quite a few of those have been mature deer.  My point is that while Michigan might not be perfect we do have the opportunity to have the hunt we want if you have access to large private tracts that are managed you can have a reasonable chance at a big deer most years and if like me your looking for solitude you just have to go find it.

[Mojostick]

Here is our deer management plan, in case some missed it...
  http://michigan.gov/documents/dnre/WLD_Deer_Management_Plan_FINAL_5.8_320639_7.pdf  

The key goals of the plan are below...(Notice it does not say "To provide lots of deer on all habitats to keep hunter satisfaction high." The plan mentions quality and nearly every goal is counter to quantity and the ill effects of quantity/high deer herd numbers.)

1.Manage Deer Populations at Levels that do not Degrade the Vegetation Upon Which Deer and Other Wildlife Depend.

2.Promote Deer Hunting to Provide Quality Recreational Opportunities, as the Primary Tool to Achieve Population Goals, and as an Important
Social and Cultural Activity.

3.Manage Habitat to Provide for the Long-term Viability of White-tailed Deer in Michigan While Limiting Negative Impacts to the Habitats of
Other Wildlife Species.

4.Reduce Conflict Between Humans and Deer.

5.Reduce the Threats and Impacts of Disease on the Wild Deer Population and on Michigan’s Economy.

6.Enhance Public Engagement in and Awareness of Deer Management Issues and Knowledge of Deer Ecology and Management.

[Mojostick]

If you read the plan, this action suggested pretty much spells out the future...

Action: Continually evaluate and implement deer hunting season structures, regulations, and outreach programs to improve recreational
opportunities associated with deer hunting, achieve appropriate harvest of antlerless deer, and shift harvest pressure from antlered to antlerless deer.

[Chain2]

I think as a group hunting and killing are the operative words. Remember when you went to the woods with a bow and a knife ? A gun and a knife ? We as a population have developed an awful hate for the whitetail. We have compund bows, cross bows, treestands, cameras, scent elimination, muzzleloaders that shoot a mile, so to speak, we have legalized baiting, we have greatly encroached on the habitat, no one farms any more, we have that senseless youth hunt, we also live in a welfare state with a whacked budget and a DNR that thinks... I don't really know if they think at all. Other than that it's a great place to walk in the woods. I think people have turned our sport from deer hunting to deer killing. I'll shut up now.

[gvdocholiday]

I'd rather eat tag soup than start flinging arrows.  Every deer with a stick is a trophy...however I'm still not going to shoot a young buck.  

The hunting in MI can only get better now that APR's have been implemented in the NW 25% of the lower peninsula.  Had several exciting encounters this year with legal bucks all within 10yds, all on public land.  Next year those same deer will still be legal and hopefully less educated as they received very little pressure.  

I did not end up releasing an arrow until December 31st this year.  Filled a private land tag on a 1.5yo doe.  

 

[Mojostick]

Now there's a reason to raise a glass on New Years Eve!