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Author Topic: following up  (Read 301 times)

Offline Bear Heart

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following up
« on: January 16, 2014, 09:17:00 PM »
I visited the lady I am getting my rhodesian ridgeback from this week . She grew up in Rhodesia but has lived in the states for many years.  We got to talking about hunting and she asked me why hunters here are so lazy when it comes to following up on game they have shot at. We also talked about how Washington State banned the use of dogs to track downed game.
What lengths have you gone to to make sure animals have really been just flesh wounded or cleanly missed?
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Re: following up
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 09:26:00 PM »
I, for one, will follow whatever sign I have, for as far as it goes, even if I am pretty sure the hit was not lethal. If there is a pindrop, I will stay at it. When I finally admit I am stuck, I will do the best grid search I can.

Nothing irks me more than having to give up on an unrecovered animal.

All that being said, I have been to Africa and watched those trackers in action. I swear I have seen a few of these men who could track a wounded animal better than any dog I have ever seen! Their skills are simply amazing.

Bisch

Offline Bear Heart

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Re: following up
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 09:34:00 PM »
Are there tracking schools?  Wish that was covered in hunters ed.
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Online 4dogs

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Re: following up
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 10:05:00 PM »
Most guys spend hours and hours and hours shooting, worrying about their equipment, clothes,scouting places to hunt,etc...How many practice tracking. It is a very essential part of being a hunter. I know lost animals happen but I would wager a lot that most could be found if more guys knew what they were doing. There is a lot more to tracking than following a blood trail.
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Offline Tradtical Commando

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Re: following up
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 10:11:00 PM »
That Traditional archery and wilderness podcast has a really good podcast on how to track and locate downed animals. Its worth checking out if you are interested in it. That fella does an outstanding podcast.

Offline jrchambers

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Re: following up
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 10:14:00 PM »
link?

Online elkken

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Re: following up
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 11:15:00 PM »
Why would she have the opinion hunters are "lazy" when it comes to following up on game that has been shot or shot at ?
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Online Lefty

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Re: following up
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 11:52:00 PM »
That is a pretty biased and general statement for her to make.  What was the basis of her claim?

Offline Bear Heart

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Re: following up
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 06:43:00 PM »
She lived on 40 acres in Misourri adjoining public land.  She witnessed hunters taking shots on game and giving up after a quick look and hunters saying things like "I didn't see any blood, must have missed it."  She also believed it cruel that so many states would rather leave the animal wounded and dying in the woods or to be ripped apart by coyotes than follow up with a blood tracking dog.

To her credit I have offered to help search through the bushes in my double knee carharts for other hunters only to have them tell me "No, if I hit him good I would have found him already."

This lady was not anti hunting.  Quite the contrary.  She was overjoyed that my dog was going to be used for hunting.  I haven't been to Africa yet but from all I have been told they go to exhaustive measure to track wounded game.
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Offline Stickbow

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Re: following up
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2014, 09:47:00 AM »
I believe tracking wounded game to be the hardest of all the skills for a bowhunter to develop.

I also believe it is another symptom of the immediate success culture in bowhunting. In years past you developed as a woodsman and success grew from your experience.(Knowledge through experience where have I heard that?) This is no longer the case and those with little experience when faced with difficult tasks perform poorly.

It gets my goat to see how often these "TV Bowhunters" let game lay overnight. Sure that may be necessary at times but I think many times that they lack the skill and confidence to track hit game. I can see how some may interpret that as lazy.

When I taught bowhunter ed this was taught with a fake blood mixture and creating a tracking scenario.

Offline maineac

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Re: following up
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2014, 10:15:00 AM »
I always try to keep on any animal I have taken a shot and an d think  I hit.  I think there are two issues.  many hunters, especially in areas blessed with deer, and those who hunt primarily with firearms expect the deer to drop in a very short distance.  If they don't find any sign they assume no hit, and since there are so many deer they do not respect the resource as much as they should (just my opinion, no facts or studies to back this up)because another deer will show up.

The second issue is lack of experience.Tracking animals takes skill, and skills are developed through practice.  In some areas if you can arrow a couple of deer a years, you might have some opportunity to practice regularly.  For those of us in areas where we might arrow a deer every couple of years that opportunity is lacking.  The African trackers get a lot of opportunity to learn and practice, there fore they are exceptional.
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Offline Cyclic-Rivers

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Re: following up
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2014, 10:15:00 AM »
Tracking is something you learn best through exeperience.  Most people lack this myself included. It would be nice to have a mentor and freinds who would invite me to their blood trails.

My follow up is exactly like Bisch's.  Follow any sign I can then Grid search.

I was able to Track my Lost Dog Down once.  I was able to track him about a mile until I found him despondant and disoriented.  It couldnt have happened too soon as it was getting Dark and coyotes are abundant there.
Relax,

You'll live longer!

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Offline Bladepeek

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Re: following up
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2014, 10:32:00 AM »
I have to agree with the lady. We have hunters as dedicated as anywhere in the world. The difference is that our laws allow anyone to hunt, where many countries allow only the truly passionate hunter to participate. As in any other area, it's the 1% who are slobs that stand out and get noticed. We live on a small lake and the amount of trash left around the lake by the slob fishermen/women who don't live there and have no stake in caring for the lake is disgusting. Are fishermen slobs? No, but there are slobs who fish.

Same with our hunting. I spent 20 years in Germany and you better be either extremely rich or really passionate about hunting. It will cost you about 6 months of your time and a bunch of bucks just to complete the training for your first license. Then, there is no public hunting, so you have to cultivate hunting opportunities with someone who has a hunting lease or a state forester. Result? Show less than acceptable competence or ethics and you have no more hunting opportunities.

I'm not proposing that system for the States. I'm just saying that as long as any couch potato with the cash to pay for a resident license and some means of launching a projectile can go out and call his actions hunting, we will see slobs in the hunting woods just as we see them in picnic areas, streams and lakes.

All we can do is set the best possible example for our young people, report the violations we see and lobby for the best hunting laws possible. States that prohibit tracking wounded game with a dog are way behind the curve in my opinion.
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Offline Bowwild

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Re: following up
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2014, 11:13:00 AM »
I wonder where the lady got her information that hunters are lazy?  

In my experience people who feel such things, such as some landowners who say "hunters have killed everything", don't know what they are talking about. Early in my wildlife career I would escort such farmers out on their farm and show them ample evidence that there was plenty of wildlife thriving on their farm - at least where the farmer hadn't destroyed all the habitat.

As a retired wildlife manager in this country I detest the European model of elitist hunter and hunting. I've traveled to England 6 times -- left my bows home every trip. Let's not paint the whole bunch of us by the actions of a few. By and large the U.S. sportsman community is law-abiding, conservation-minded, and truly loves hunting. There is no stronger model for wildlife management anchored by sportsmen and women than the "North American" model, perfected by sportsman-backed science right here in the USA.

But back to your question. I dread wounding an animal because I know that I now have to commit many hours of tedious effort to recover or make sure the animal can't be recovered. Once that arrow is loosed hunting season is suspended until the animal is recovered or confirmed (as much as possible) as lost or only wounded. I hate sneaking all over some of the best cover on my hunting areas trailing a poor shot result.  

It is my firm belief that people who take low percentage shots don't spend the time following up that they should. They just move on to the next poor decision.

I just had one of the most satisfying recovery of one of my son's bow-killed deer a couple of weeks ago. He had taken a high-percentage shot and made a good shot (as per his upbringing). The trail wasn't difficult but the deer traveled about twice the distance I would have expected.

What I got a kick out of when he called me to come and help recover the deer (it was dark and he knows 2 are better than one)I told him on the drive out where I expected to find the deer. When we spotted the deer my son exclaimed that "the deer is right where you thought it would be!" I tried to be cool and nonchalant but I was pretty tickled!

I have to mute most of the TV hunting shows. I think some of the overnight waits are for camera light the next morning. I always "study" the TV recovered critter to see if it is actually the one shot the PM before.

A lot of Bowhunter Ed classes are taught by experienced bowhunters and do cover following-up/tracking shot game.

Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: following up
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2014, 12:49:00 PM »
I think it would be a very cool thing to start tracking clinics to give hunters with no or little experience good solid basics to start out with.

Tracking is a whole lot more than stumbling around the general area looking for blood. Tracking truely starts when the blood trail ends, or is lost.

More animals are lost by loosing a blood trail and going back for help and bring 3 or 4 guys out there that just trash the area doing grid searches. I prefer tracking alone much better. You have more control over what is disturbed, and what isn't.... All it takes is one leaf turned upside down, or the dew on the ferns.... or a broken, or unbroken spider web sometimes to get you back on the right track.

Does anyone out there actually look at the tracks themselves closely?  These animals have different shaped hoofs just like finger prints if you spend time enough to look..... Granted... a lot of times the ground is too dry for this approach.

But i've found animals before that didn't leave a drop of blood that i knew i had a good double lung shot on by carefully following the tracks themselves, and looking for something out of place...... learning tracking skills is an art.

Offline reddogge

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Re: following up
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2014, 01:54:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bear Heart:
What lengths have you gone to to make sure animals have really been just flesh wounded or cleanly missed?
First of all you must go over the site where the animal was standing when hit with the arrow. The broadhead cuts off hair which falls to the ground. By observing what color hair is found you can tell pretty much what part of his body was hit. Brown is good and white is not.
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Online TooManyHobbies

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Re: following up
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2014, 07:37:00 PM »
I'll admit, I'm not the best tracker, and due to that, I've lost more than a few animals. When I do get a shot, good or bad, I track it as long as I can, even when I see the animal drop 20 or more yards away. Granted, it's easier to track knowing the animal is down for good, but I take every opportunity I get to blood trail the animal, from arrow/first blood to DOA.

BTW, CT is one of those states behind the curve, no blood trailing dogs allowed.
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Offline Bear Heart

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Re: following up
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2014, 08:12:00 PM »
I posted this not to insult our hunters but as food for thought on an area many of us, me included, could improve on.
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Offline Bowwild

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Re: following up
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2014, 08:51:00 PM »
Early in my career I was stationed on a WMA in northern Indiana (Kingsbury FW Area).  About 1,000 of that 6,000 acre area was off-limits to the general public and for any hunting due to the possibility of unexploded ordinance. So this area was refuge.

Whenever deer hunters, shot deer that ran into this no-go zone they had to come to the check station and fetch one of us to track the deer. The hunter wasn't allowed to go with us. (Too many hunters violated the no-go rule though and entered this area on their deer's trail -- often just far enough to mess up the trail and make finding their deer more difficult.)

I remember times when we actually had different blood trails cross each other. We got lots of tracking practice. Also saw a lot of amazing deer!

I use actual tracks more often than I realize sometimes.  I ignore the tracks as long as I'm finding blood other than to note, if I can, the size in case I need em.  It is common to find "escape tracks" where the deer was standing when the arrow hit, usually before blood but like others, there will be hair there but often very difficult to see. Of course if you have lost blood and are checking multiple trails sometimes there will be no fresh tracks on those trails. As obvious as it sounds, the deer didn't go that way! So focus on ruling out other directions as you try too recover the trail.

I remember tracking a gut-shot deer (scored 146 something)for a friend in the early 80's.  When that deer left a narrow woods where he was shot and entered a large alfalfa field we had not yet found a blood trail. However, we had followed tracks to the alfalfa. Then on hands and knees we could feel the ground (in the vegetation) for those tracks. We made it 50 or so yards but it was way too slow and unsteady going.  I noticed a brushy right-of-way 200+ yards or more out front in the general line the deer was going across the field. So, I went way around the supposed trail and went to that right-of-way (utility). Bingo... we found first blood right there on tall weeds in that right-of-way. The deer went through another small woodlot and then into standing corn. I called the hunt off that night because we were trailing him by disturbed leaves because blood was so sparse. We found him about 30 yards into the corn field, the next morning in just 15 minutes. I'll never forget how his trail starting wavering (totering right and left) at the very end.

I like tracking with another person although most of my tracking has been solo just because I hunt alone. One person will stay at last blood (usually the shooter because he is too wound up too take time looking for blood) while the other follows the blood-trail. Of course there are all kinds of tricks of the trade....path of least resistance and using tissue or flagging tape to record a path of travel which can sometimes be helpful in projecting where the deer likely went. It is very possible, I suppose due to lots of tracking, to get pretty accurate and figuring where the deer should have gone.

Except for the first 10-30 yards after a fatal hit most deer I've tracked avoided going through brush, piles of limbs, i.e. places they would have trouble negotiating if unwounded. Of course the first mad dash after a lethal hit can send a deer running into trees, etc.

I remember tracking a bear in Ontario, well after dark by the leak plants it's paws bent or broke. I also remember on one of these trails hearing a bear ripping into our bait on the back trail. That was erie!

I think it is a terrific idea for hunters to volunteer (without creating the crowd Kirk so rightly alluded too) to help trail for the experience.

The blood trail is SO important. If the deer is bleeding and you stop finding blood, it is almost always there but the deer changed direction and you have simply lost it. Resist grids and half-circles as long as possible trying to find the blood trail again. Once the girds, half-circles, and meandering searching begins the chance of destroying the blood trail increases.

I hate to remind myself but I lost a nice buck a half dozen years ago.  I was certain I saw that buck turn left about 60 degrees about 50 yards out. The hit was just below the top of the back, my side, angled perfectly down, and forward towards the opposite shoulder. I didn't have an exit wound and no blood to that point. I didn't even think to go right because of what I thought I had seen. Eventually after hours that night and the next morning we (I!) lost that deer. He was found by my buddy 3 days later just 50-60 yards to the .... right. Very dumb mistake. I was  sick and punched my tag right then and there.

Between us we had 80 years of bowhunting and recovering many dozens of deer. Had I made full 180 half-circles instead of 90 degree quarter circles to the left, we would have found that deer that very evening.  The real irony, is the deer was found a few yards off the very path we normally take to and from that stand!  We didn't take the normal path out that night or in the next morning because of my thinking the deer was too the left.

Offline Bear Heart

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Re: following up
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2014, 10:44:00 PM »
Great post Bowwild
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