Old School tuning......

[Ric O'Shay]

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm certainly not going to demean any equipment that folks want to use. However, I just read through several pages of headaches and heartaches that some folks are having trying to "tune" their bows to their arrows or their arrows to their bows. It hurt my head just reading their woes.      One person said he was so frustrated that he was thinking of giving up shooting. That to me is just sad. Very sad.

Archery (trad type) is supposed to be fun. In fact, yesterday I received a bow in the mail that I had traded for. 68" 50# @ 28" Morning star. I twisted up a new string, adjusted the brace height to 6" and set the nock 3/8" above the shelf. I grabbed a handful of wood arrows spined 50/54 and went out and shot. Beautiful arrow flight with the fletch spiraling into the hay bale. No worries, no frustration or aggravation, just having fun shooting a new bow.

I have compassion for those that think it is necessary to obsess over bow tuning. But at the same time, there is something to be said for us "Old School" folks.    

[centaur]

Danny,
I'm with you. Maybe I have been lucky, but somehow my arrows fly great without tuning woes like those we see on this site regularly. I manage to get pass throughs, and when I do my part, my arrows go where they are supposed to.
The simplicity of traditional archery is a major factor in its enjoyment, at least for me. Simple, but not easy, and that is a good part of the appeal.
Just another old dinosaur's opinion.

[Lamey]

yep, ive never had trouble tuning any bow i have owned. I keep it very simple, use the bowyers guide for brace/nock, then start with shafts that I "think" should work.  Usually within 15 minutes, im dialed in.

[Bowwild]

I too feel for those who come up on a tuning wall. I appreciate these folks know that great arrow flight is important to accuracy and more important to penetration. And of course the joy of a beautiful arrow arc is sullied a bit by wagging arrows. So we want to get them tuned.

Most all my bows are within 3-4 pounds draw weight of one another. They are also similar in other ways. I don't change arrow materials and rarely even change spine (500 and 600 Axis spines). I rarely even change arrow length although sometimes I work up 27 or 27.5" arrows.

The only time I spend much time tuning is when I want to beef up to a heavier arrow for a different critter. I'll mess with different weight inserts and broadheads.

Frankly, I wouldn't need to change anything but I just like to tinker.

When I'm contemplating a new arrow I spend more time gaming with Stu's Calculator than making equipment adjustments.

[bentpole]

Well said Folks! I hear it all the time also. Folks starting their Trad Journeys that are blaming bad form, anchor, release, not picking a spot, on wrong arrows. How often did I receive a new bow, set the brace height, add the nock, MAKE SURE Arrow Nock fit on string properly [loose nocks = poor arrow flight and noise]. Then proceed to grab a bunch of arrows. Carbons and woodies whatever was around and have no problem hitting where I wanted. 35/55 Gold Tips and 55/60 woodies for all my bows between 45/55 #'s. Carbons are just a matter of cutting 1 inch longer than draw length and playing around with point weight. My 2 cents

[Alexander Traditional]

I agree and hope I don't run into any problems like the ones that others are having. Within my bow weight range I have CE150 and CE250. Between these two arrows and I have field points from 100 to 250 grains. I set the nock at around 1/2 inch and usually pick the CE150 arrow and what tip I think will be in the ball park,and then watch the arrow flight and change tip weight and you can tell real quick if you are going the wrong way.

[Ray Lyon]

I usually just step back to 30 yards and make sure broadheads and field points are flying to the same spot.  If not, tune accordingly.  I believe I read in a book about Howard Hill that when he was getting ready for a hunt he made up a large batch of arrows and stepped back to 70 yards. He shot the arrows and bundled them in three groups, those that shot to the left, the right and spot on.

[-snypershot317-]

i agree, even tho i am of a younger age i dont have any issues with tuning...i figured that mr caveman didnt sit there and tune till he was blue he just figured out what worked and went hunting (even in the day of knights tuning wasnt a big question) you just figure up with what works shoot and have fun...i use carbons and cut them 1-2" longer than draw weight and tune with point weight...a sharp broadhead and accurate shot will be the demise of any animal, regardless of arrow spine or weight, or tune so to speak  

[Bud B.]

I agree. I haven't ever had any real problems tuning arrows to bows. Some, but no total aggravation where I wanted to give up.

I think guys and gals wanting extremely high FOC have to accept the headaches that come with their desires. If that's the journey they want then the road is not always smooth. But, we trad folk kinda take that in stride given our choice of archery. Each bow/arrow/point combo is a journey in itself. The rest of the journey is accurate delivery to the intended target with that bow/arrow/point combo.

Then, for some strange reason, we get a new bow and start over.

Isn't that the fun?                

[bentpole]

Bud B.        

[Stumpkiller]

quote:Originally posted by Ric O'Shay:
Archery (trad type) is supposed to be fun. In fact, yesterday I received a bow in the mail that I had traded for. 68" 50# @ 28" Morning star. I twisted up a new string, adjusted the brace height to 6" and set the nock 3/8" above the shelf. I grabbed a handful of wood arrows spined 50/54 and went out and shot. Beautiful arrow flight with the fletch spiraling into the hay bale. No worries, no frustration or aggravation, just having fun shooting a new bow.

     

My test lab - much better than a calculator.

   

When I find shafts that work I verify spine on my $2 spine gauge.  Two dowels 26" apart set into the edge of a shelf.  Rose City has a printable deflection to spine chart.

   

[moebow]

Good post Danny!!  I'm with you.  IMO the HFOC and EFOC attempts we often see are "shots in the dark" because there is no "base" to start from.  + or - 14% FOC has worked for ever but many trying for the more extreme FOC arrows don't have a starting point to work from.

Also, in my experience, 90% of the "tuning" problems folks have is NOT bow center cut, arrow spine or point weight -- it IS shot execution and form.  We are the MOST variable part of the system.

Arne

[mike g]

I always use 125 points, I don't know if that makes it easy our not, But I don't have a problem getting good arrow flight....
    I use Legacy shafts cut to 29" My draw, All of my Arrows are close to 500 grns. close to the 10 grns per pound scale....
    When I hunt I twist off the field point and twist on a Broadhead of same weight....
    As said above, I think some people over think it....

Originally posted by moebow:
Good post Danny!!  I'm with you.  IMO the HFOC and EFOC attempts we often see are "shots in the dark" because there is no "base" to start from.  + or - 14% FOC has worked for ever but many trying for the more extreme FOC arrows don't have a starting point to work from.

Also, in my experience, 90% of the "tuning" problems folks have is NOT bow center cut, arrow spine or point weight -- it IS shot execution and form.  We are the MOST variable part of the system.

Arne

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

I shot aluminum arrows for years. They worked well, but they would bend on occasion, and I don't like bent arrows! I liked carbon since they came out, but would not use them for a long time, cause they were not heavy enough for my liking. Then they came out with the components for making carbons heavier; heavy inserts and a much wider variety of field point weights. I worked up my first carbon hunting arrow and the added FOC just happened because the front was the easy place to add the weight (btw, my arrows are 21-22% FOC).

While I shot aluminums, I also shot woods. I could never shoot the woods as well as the aluminums, but they were good enough to play more at 3D shoots. After I switched to the carbons with the higher FOC, the woodies became the scourge of my life! I could group them OK, but could not get them to hit where I was looking to save my life! There is something different about the cast of the higher FOC arrows (at least for me) that wacs me out when I try to shoot the woods now. Last year I finally just gave them up for good.

I have also tried to help several local guys with tuning. The guys that had decent basic form tend to be able to tune ok and we find something that will work well for them. The guys that don't have good form get real frustrated when I tell them that they are doing something wrong that is making the arrows do what they do. I am not good at picking form apart, so they get even more frustrated when I tell them I don't know how to fix their problems!

Bisch

[Bladepeek]

Arne, as always your advice (and Danny's) is right on. When I'm having a really good day, my "too stiff" arrows shoot to the right (I'm a lefty) and my too weak arrows shoot to the left, but they group together. On my more usual days, I just get large groups. Whenever I get my act together, the arrows fly as you would expect them to, given their spines, but still very close to where I'm aiming.

[TOEJAMMER]

Danny,
Well said and for me it has worked for well over 60+ years.

[Orion]

Yep.  I've been shooting sticks for about 60 years myself, and can't say I've ever had a difficult time tuning arrows to shoot well out of my bows. That includes wood, fiberglass and carbon arrows out of selfbows, longbows, hybrids and recurves. Never shot aluminums much.

There no doubt is one best spine for a given bow, but a lot of folks don't realize that most bows will shoot a wide range of spines accurately.  Howard Hill proved that in his shooting demonstrations.  He would often take arrows from folks in the crowd, most likely spined a lot less than his personal arrows, and shot one after another into the bulls eye.

As others have already pointed out, many shooters don't have good enough, consistent enough form to properly tune arrows to the nth degree. It's a recipe for frustration.    

[gringol]

There's no way my form is good enough to get perfect flight from a bare shaft at 30 yards.  I get bare shafts close at about 15 yards and then fletch em up.  If broad heads fly well I'm done.  It seems like most guys have trouble when their primary goal is to get extreme FOC.  If you stumble into it fine, but the primary goal should be good flight shouldn't it?

[BAK]

Remember when we numbered our arrows cause we knew #2 was always a bit high, and #6 always went a bit left, etc.  You just mentaly adjusted for the deviation and still shot well.  That all pretty much ended with aluminum and glass and now carbon.  I can't believe how consistant some of them can be shot now..

[lpcjon2]

I think it was Bjorn(I may be wrong) who told me he used to ad 10# to the draw weight of the bow for picking arrows. I do this and it seems to work out for me. I dont get into the crazy tuning troubles. Just a minor adjustment and I'm good.