Most forgiving bow style for hunting?

[alex321]

Which is it?

I have a pyramidal flatbow, which must be shot overhand. I cannot do this consistantly...

I then bought something with an arrow shelf.  It is a reflex-deflex longbow.  I am better with this...  But not great.

Should I try a Howard Hill American longbow or a recurve?
Howard Hill wrote that he was not a good enough shot to shoot a recurve whilst hunting.  I have seen Byron Fergusson say something similar (youtube).  Is this just a salesman talking or is it real?

My main aim is to hunt, eventually.  However, with a traditional style bow, not a compound. What do you suggest?  Thank you for your advice.
Alex

[Echo62]

For me a recurve is much easier to shoot consitantly than a straight longbow. I've tried R/D longbows, hybrids, and straight longbows. I still shoot recurves the best.    Bodnik in Germany makes some excellent recurves.

[alex321]

Thanks Echo62,

I don't mind shipping from the US and since it is the home of Howard Hill, I guessed that it would be the best place to buy.

You are correct about Bodnik.  Infact they build a Byron Ferguson designed Z-Bow.  I am considering that.

I just don't understand why both Mr Ferguson and Mr Hill used American Flat bows whilst everyone else uses recurves...or something similar

[Roger Norris]

I think it's a learning curve. Early in ones archery career, you are learning the basics....form, etc. I think a recurve with a deeply indexed pistol grip is easier to start out with. And because most guys shoot so well with them, they never change. That is totally and completely fine. I have many recurves, and hunt with them often.

But for me....I have migrated to an almost full sized longbow...slightly reflexed...with a slightly indexed grip (it's a 62" NM Baraga, 60# @ 28", with the RW grip). This is the most forgiving design FOR ME. And it took over 40 years to figure that out      

Shoot lots of bows, but I suggest not committing to one singular style until you are certain your style/skill level has reached it's natural level.

[RC]

Like Roger I have found a bit longer mild r/d longbow works best. I prefer a 64" - 66". I hunt probably half the time on the ground and split the other half between a ground blind and a treestand.I do not shoot a real fast bow very well.RC

[alex321]

Thank you both of you.  There is much to think about.

It looks like I am going to need deep pockets  

My first bow, the flat bow, is 72" long and I became frustrated with not being able to shoot well off-hand.

The next bow with a shelf is much more fancy, but this goes against the reason I started.  I want the simplest design, which will get the job done.  Speed is not really the issue for me, stability is...

There is a holmgard type bow I was also thinking of, but the Howard Hill style is cheaper and I cannot stop thinking about what he said about shooting recurves...

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts..
Alex

[KeganM]

The recurves Hill shot were nothing like what we have today. The heavy, sculpted risers sit in the hand better and the fast, low shock limbs make it easy to hold through the shot.

The big thing is just learning to shoot though. Get comfortable and consistent. A good shot can be reasonably accurate with any bow though, regardless of design. "It's not the bow, it's the Indian" as they used to say.

[mike g]

Howard Hill shot a lot of animals on the move.
    And I think a recurve with the Big risers get in the way of the shot...

[EHK]

This is a highly debated topic, but you may be interested in a poll that was posted here not too long ago:

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=090477#000000

I agree with the majority in that poll that a recurve is more forgiving.  I believe that the grip, mass weight and closer to center shelf cut are all contributors.  I love the graceful lines of longbows of all shapes, but I shoot recurves significantly better.  I also prefer the, generally speaking, slightly shorter length for hunting, especially if treestand hunting.  Neither bow is a cure for bad form, however my arrows are not as far off target when I make a mistake with the curve vs. the longbow.

I'm envious of guys that shoot longbows well.  I won't stop trying to get better with either style, but when hunting, nine times out of ten, I reach for the Bear SK.

I wonder what it would be like to be able to shoot moving game like Hill.  If the Howard Hill approach is what you like, go for it.  The whole thing, shooting style and equipment.  I used to think, as some, that starting with a recurve is better, not anymore.  If your goal is to emulate Hill, do it and do it right, start with the John Schulz Hitting em like Howard Hill film, in four parts on you tube.  Take Hill's advice, don't over bow, never shoot a bow that you can not easily handle.
  To answer your post, is a longbow more forgiving as Hill said?  If you shoot them the way Hill did, yes they are.

[Sam McMichael]

I don't think either a longbow or a recurve are inherently better than the other. There are many intangibles involved in finding a bow that suits a given individual that go beyond just the physics and mechanical properties. It matters not what others prefer or shoot better. Simply find what suits you and just "fits" your style of shooting. There is no wrong answer, just preferences and choices.

[Ken Taylor]

I shoot a recurve and a longbow pretty well the same.

One of the reasons that I prefer a longbow is that it shortens my inconveniently long draw length (mostly because of the position of the hand/wrist on a longbow as compared to a recurve).

I also started shooting a longbow before a recurve (so, like others above have mentioned - it can be just a matter of personal preference).

[tg2nd]

Originally posted by Echo62:
 Bodnik in Germany makes some excellent recurves.

Sorry, but you're wrong!
Henry Bodnik does  n o t  build anything. He just sells things other people are making.

[alex321]

Originally posted by tg2nd:
 

Originally posted by Echo62:
 Bodnik in Germany makes some excellent recurves.

Sorry, but you're wrong!
Henry Bodnik does  n o t  build anything. He just sells things other people are making. [/b]

It depends if you mean the man or the company.  I believe that his head bow making man is Christoph Unger and he works on site.  He also sells bows other people have made for him, in the old East Block countries.

I see you are from the same Bundesland as the company.  Maybe you are better informed than me.

Cheers
Alex

[Echo62]

I meant the company. Mr. Unger is making some good quality bows.

[alex321]

Originally posted by Echo62:
I meant the company.

As far as I am aware, the company makes bows (in Rossach, Bavaria) and also have bows made for them in Hungary(I think its that country)

I don't know if he can make a bow or not.  He can shoot them pretty well though.
Alex

[alex321]

Originally posted by EHK:
This is a highly debated topic, but you may be interested in a poll that was posted here not too long ago:

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=090477#000000  


I'm envious of guys that shoot longbows well.  I won't stop trying to get better with either style, but when hunting, nine times out of ten, I reach for the Bear SK.

Thank you for the link.  60:40 is an interesting split.

So I just went back to my flatbow and shot so much better...

I guess its alot of it is in the brain and getting that right.  I did have to really concentrate on my grip. Get that wrong and real handshock..

Still I would like to try a tacke down Howard Hill bow.  Any suggestsions on who are the best makers?

Thank you, everyone who replied.  It has gotten me thinking
Cheers
ALex

[RC]

Its hard to beat Craig at HH Archery.

[Stumpkiller]

Personal observations.

In my first five years of hunting with a Hill style longbow I killed no deer.

In my first five years of hunting with a one-piece recurve I killed two deer.

In my first five years of hunting from a treestand (with a recurve) I killed four deer.

Obviously the tree-stand is more forgiving than either the recurve or longbow.      

Truly, the choice of recurve vs. longbow means less now with recurve handled reflex/deflex longbows that perform well in "standard human" strength draws.  A modern recurve of 45# does what a self bow of 75# used to; likely more.  And by "modern" I just mean glass laminate.  My favorite hunting recurves are early to mid 1960's designs.

As for forgiving in hunting conditions - when you are cold, tired, dressed in bulky clothes and shooting from an awkward position the bow you are familiar with at a draw you can handle will be the more forgiving.

[Knawbone]

Originally posted by RC:
Its hard to beat Craig at HH Archery.

I totally agree with this statement. If you like HH style bows and you want to shoot one well, then there's only one way to learn.......shoot one! I started out with a recurve, but once I shot a longbow for a week or two, I was shooting the longbow just as well. American semi longbows are inherently accurate, have excellent cast, and are forgiving of arrow spine.( wooden arrows)I suggest you call and speak to Craig at HHA, he can answer your questions and set you up with a bow tailored to you. I own 12 bows, three of them are Hill's and I shoot the hill's 90% of the time.Excellent bows! Good shooting to you.
                          God bless