Bare Shaft tuning?

[tracker12]

Was raining yesterday so I went up to my club to do a little shooting.  Took a bare shaft with me to see how it was shooting after a recent string change.  Shot three fletched arrows in a nice tight group at around 18 yards and the bare shaft center punched in between them.  I did this on tree consecutive times.  The one this is that the arrow was impacting pretty hard nock left.  Should I be tweaking something.  I did not have a lot of weights with me so I was unable to experiment to much but the little weight changes I made did not show any significant change.

[gringol]

Sounds like you're already dialed in to me.

[Bladepeek]

When I look at tutorials on bareshaft tuning, I find two different ideas. One camp says don't worry about nock left/right - tune so that your bareshaft lands in the same group with the fletched and you're done.

The other camp says tune until the bareshaft hits straight in - neither left, nor right and you're done. Fletch 'em up and shoot 'em.

I like the first system personally. My fletching will straighten out any nock left/right.

[BAK]

Well, consider that if the nock is too far to the left or right, with a wood arrow you'd have a broken shaft.  Is it really tuned if that happens?

[Wheels2]

I did bare shaft tuning with carbons and aluminum.
I noticed a difference in both flight and impact angle, but I did not shoot them with fletched arrows.  I repeated the process several times just to confirm the results and rule out issues with release or form.
I am waiting on some wood shafts in different spines and point weight and plan on selecting a wood shaft based on the same procedure.
Shooting distance was 15 yards.

[CDorton]

In my mind there are just too many variables that could cause nock left/right or high/low. I just rely on where they group. If it was at short distance, say 10 yards, and there was an extreme cant to the arrow I might take notice.

[tracker12]

I think I am going to side with Gringol and just leave it be.  I have been using this combo for a while now and been happy with the flight.  I hate to over think things.  With fletching they are hitting straight at 25 so I am going to let well enough alone.

[Bladepeek]

BAK, yeah, I'd call it tuned. At least you will never miss a shot with that shaft  

[BAK]

Bladepeek, we differ as I have had no problem tuning wood arrows to fly well enough to hit straight on out to 40 yards.  Even played around shooting 3D matches with bare shaft arrows just to prove to myself and my partners that it could be done.

Just start in close and fine tune as you move back.

[Blaino]

if you are right handed then you have a shaft that is slightly weak. or your could be plucking the string a little bit. if i was tunning/shooting then i'd know my tune is 99% to a perfect tune. like maybe 1/16" or at most 1/8" off the back form 100% perfect.

step back 18 more steps and you'll know for sure.

i'm the guy who wants perfect flight from the bare shaft though.....  

[Bladepeek]

BAK, no, we don't differ. I was just trying to be a smart asp.

I'm not good enough to shoot at 40 yards, but have no problem bareshafting at 20 yards and putting the bare shaft(s) right in the group.

I also have no trouble believing you shot a 3-D match with bareshafts because if I have mine tuned properly, I see no difference in the point of impact from fletched arrows.

Ron

[Easykeeper]

I think you are pretty close or your bare shaft wouldn't have consistently been in there with the fletched shafts.

I'd guess you are still slightly weak and if you could move back to 25-30 yards you might find your bare shaft impacting slightly right of your fletched shafts.  I'm one that doesn't pay a lot of attention to the angle of the bare shaft, but theoretically the bare shafts should be in the target at the same angle as the fletched.

I will say that I like to shoot more than one bare shaft.  A nock that is even slightly out of true is enough to through off the flight of a shaft without feathers.

Rather than worry about angle, I just move further back, although I think for most of us anything beyond 20 yards is   fine tuning  .  When I get to 25-30 yards if the bare shafts group with fletched I call it done, even if the bare are slightly angled in the target.  At that point I have never not been able to swap the field points for same weight broadheads and get perfect arrow flight.

Lets face it, bare shafts are very sensitive.  Thats why they work so well to tune your bow.  You can drive yourself crazy trying to get the perfect angle when the truth is close enough is usually close enough, at least in my opinion.

[Slickhead]

I want a bare shaft to fly like a fletched one
Naturally after so many yds they will fly tail left or right.
But the truer they fly bare shafted the better.
JMO...no expert

[The Night Stalker]

I agree with slickhead. I shoot carbons and if your release is good enough, you can shoot a bare shaft 30 yards. Your draw length has to be very consistent. By paying attention to spine/ point weight , and trimming your shafts 1/4 inch at a time, you can get it right. If your bare shafts shoot that well, your fletched broadheads will give you better penetration in my opinion.

[overbo]

This is what I don't understand. If you can't shoot a bare shaft well past 20 yrds. Why do you accept that?

Bare shafting not only matches your arrow to bow but it'll do wonders for your shooting form.

If your arrow is showing nock left at 18 yrds. It'll probably miss the target at 30 yrds. To have your bow shooting a clean bare shaft IMO is the most important part of archery. W/out it you'll never know the true potential of yourself and equipment.

[katman]

I tune my bows to shoot arrows tipped with broadheads. Once I get the field point bare shafts hitting with fletched out to 25 yds I switch to broadheads and field points to fine tune out to 30 yds. Some broadheads I end up with a slightly weak bare shaft, others slightly stiff.

Tracker, try lowering brace 1/16-1/8" to stiffen dynamic spine. Hitting with nock 'hard left' may be to weak.

[snapper1d]

Overbo nailed it! If you dont get perfect flight from your arrows you will never know just how good you really could be. "I shot dead on at that deer and I dont know why I missed him" Its been said a million times by people who didnt have their arrows tuned perfectly!

[tracker12]

For now I am going to stay where I am with everything.  Bow is smooth and quiet.  I shot again last night out to 25 yards and impact was the same with bare and fletched shafts. I was able to replicate the same results with a 200 grain VPA 3 blade on the end.   Still left nock but not as bad with good release.  I'm comfortable with my results.  I think spending more time perfecting my release which at time is "Plucky" will be more beneficial.  

I was sent a copy of the ACS Bow tuning article that I found very informative. Especially the effect on the arrow moving the side plate in or out.  Makes sense since when Broadhead tuning with the wheel bow I routinely made right/left adjustments to the rest.  I have a new string coming for another bow I have that I am going to experiment with starting from scratch.  Thanks for all the suggestions.

[JamesKerr]

I would leave it like it is. If your are getting that good of groups at 18 yards then you are probably tuned better then most guys here on Tradgang.

[reddogge]

Many thoughts here and obviously they work for those people. I usually wind up with a slightly weak arrow. By slightly weak the bare shaft flies to the target with a slightly nock left attitude, all the way to the target. I'm talking an inch left lean, no more. Fletching will take care of that. What I don't want is a really weak shaft or a slightly stiff shaft where the fletching has to work hard to overcome it.