VIEWPOINT-Elitist Attitude

[jhg]

Regarding equipment- my hunting pard is a compound shooter and I didn't care. But I no longer respect him...

 When he accidently killed a spike bull in a restricted area (while hunting with someone else) and he left the animal but for the back straps else "go through the hassle of contacting a game warden and then waiting hours" or "put his buddies at risk" by filling their truck with an illegal elk, well, that was the end of that relationship.

What I am saying is: let it be the archers ethics, their dignity in representing the sport, their skill of the hunt, that determines our  attitudes toward them. Not the gear.

Joshua

[reddogge]

The evening before our rifle season in MD my host's son and I do a bowhunt for Sika deer. He uses a crossbow and I use a recurve. Our common goal is to kill a deer and we root for each other. We are hunters period.

The next day we both are using rifles. Our common goal is to kill a deer and we root for each other. We are both hunters.

Get my point?

Originally posted by Walt Francis:
Some shoot a bow.  Others shoot a compound.  Still others shoot an arrow-gun.  Many, many, more use guns that fire bullets. They are all hunters.  I have found that ones hunting ethics has little correlation to the weapon used, but a significant correlation to their character.  I hunt with anybody who has similar ethics as myself, regardless of the weapon used.  

That said, why is hunting one of the few sports that wants one to accept every change in technology and still claim it is the same?  If one is involved with tennis (or many other sports) and somebody decides to use a mechanized serving machine that, launces the ball at 300 mph, within +/- an inch of its intended location, with 99.99% certainty, is one expected to recognize the "progressive changes" as the same sport?  One of the basic tenets of tennis has changed.  How about allowing the pitcher to use a pitching machine that he can crank up the speed of the ball to 210 mph with exact placement of every pitch.  Is dropping the ball into the machine still pitching?  Rail on me all you want, but when you use a machine that doubles the performance and requires aids (trigger) to operate, it is no longer the same sport.  

Are they hunters?  Yes!  

Are they bowhunters? I do not think they are.  

If pointing out the the obvious makes me an elitist, so be it.  Frankly, I don't much care what you call me for telling the truth.

Sorry Walt but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. What you think is obvious, really isn't.  First of all, compounds, recurves, and longbows are all "bows."  They are also all "machines." Recurves and longbows are simple machines, and a compound bow is a compound machine, hence it's name.

Second, the machine, whether it is a recurve, longbow or compound requires the same human function.  If I shoot a compound bow with fingers, and no sight, does that make it a real bow?  Or if I shoot a recurve with a release and a sight, is it now too much of a machine?

As to technology, are a Model A Ford and Ford Mustang both automobiles, or is one an automobile and the other a spaceship?  Does modern technology enable one go twice as fast as the other?  

How about a hickory shafted driver, and a steel or graphite shafted Calloway Big Bertha.  Is one a golf club and the other something else?  Does modern technology enable one to propel a golf ball twice as far as the other?  Does perimeter waiting, radiused soles, and offset heads enable one to be more accurate than the other?  

How about a wooden tennis racket with cat gut strings, compared to a modern graphite racket with an oversized head and synthetic strings?  Are the latter no longer tennis rackets?  

Using your definition, the "basic tenets" of archery have not changed. Bows are faster, just like tennis rackets and golf clubs.  Some of them use technology and mechanical advantages, but at the end of the day, they still require a human being to draw them or swing them, aim them, and put the ball or arrow that they launch where it needs to go.

Crossbows are a different story.  They require a completely different human function (or lack thereof) to operate.  Yes, they propel and arrow, but that is where the similarities end.

Originally posted by Mojostick:
We have to establish if being "elite" is even a negative or pejorative. Is being "elite" a bad thing? If so, why? Or why not?

Should MLB ban the "All Star Game" because players not selected may be offended? Would the Bin Laden raid have turned out differently if we'd have sent in the Delta Kappa paintball team versus the elite Seals?

There's a major difference being elite and snobbery. I suspect everyone wants to be a part of the elite and nobody wants to be deemed a snob.

The history of the word snob is interesting. "The word "snobbery" came into use the first time in England during the 1820s. It was said to have derived from the habit of many Oxford and Cambridge colleges of writing sine nobilitate (without nobility) or s.nob. next to the names of ordinary students on examination lists in order to distinguish them from their aristocratic schoolmates."

I doubt many here would want to associate themselves with nobility or aristocrats. So the lines of definition we're trying to walk is sometimes rather fine.

You are confusing terms.  

Comparing "elite" to "elitist" is like comparing "ego" with "egotist."  Being "elite" does not make one an "elitist" any more than having an "ego" makes one an "egotist."

Taking either one to the   "ist"  realm is a character flaw.

[arrowlauncherdj]

X 2 on Tooner's comments. My sentiments exactly

Dave

[Terry Green]

I am proud to say that on TradGang you can have such a civil discussion on this type of topic.

     

[Bowwild]

I agree things are civil here but too be fair I'm aware of another as well.

[TonyW]

Roy -

NASP is great for teaching respect as well as archery! The kids may start with compounds for economic and/or safety concerns, but as they develop their skills they are encouraged to follow their own dreams. If they dream of the Olympics, they naturally switch to recurve bows. Some of them even go on to hunt with trad bows for the pure joy of it.

After all, the true elite are the hogs, deer, turkeys and other critters that outwit us puny humans every day.

[Terry Green]

Duly noted Roy, so I edited my post.