True draw weight???

[Paul_R]

I asked a guy if he had checked the labeled draw weight on a bow against a scale. He told me it was dead on at "true draw measured to the deepest part of the grip". What???

[SKITCH]

Bowyer or salesman??

[4dogs]

I think he was just telling you how he was measuring the draw length"to the deepest part of the grip" instead of the back of the shelf as some do and that the weight was dead on using that methoud.

[LittleBen]

Bows should always be measured from the most inset part of the grip. Otherwise bows with thin grips dont compare well to bows with thick grips

26 1/4" from string to deepest part of grip + 1/75" (AMO standard) gives a reading for a 28" draw.

[4dogs]

Should be but thats why the qualifier "true" where it is measured just to the deepest part of the grip...thats it nothing else added. True meaning where your hand grips the riser. Not AMO.

[Paul_R]

Thanks guys, mystery solved.

[Ric O'Shay]

"True" draw? So, y'all are telling me that the draw measured to the deepest part of the grip is the true draw, then it stands to reason that a bows weight measured from the throat of the nock to the back of the riser is the "False" draw weight.

Does  that mean if you have a "true" draw of 26.25", then do you cut your arrows to 26.25", the length of your true draw?

How do you interpolate what your arrow spine should be using the  "True" or "False" draw measurement?

Is this one of the reasons why folks can never tune the bow?

Why would anyone want to measure draw weight at anything but the back of the riser?

Just curious????

[Sam McMichael]

Maybe this is why some folks just shoot different arrows till they find what works and skip the technical stuff.

[BAK]

Took this from the "book".  If you read all the way through it you see that the distance from the throat of the nock to the BACK of the bow is the new standard.

"AMO DRAW LENGTH STANDARD
For Manufacturers
Draw length is a specified distance, or the distance at the archer’s full draw, from
the nocking point on the string to the pivot point of the bow grip (or the theoretical
vertical projection of a tangency line to the pivot point parallel to the string)
plus 1 3/4”. Draw length from pivot point shall be designed at DLPP and shall be
called TRUE DRAW LENGTH.
EXAMPLE: 26 1/4” DLPP plus 1 3/4” is the equivalent of 28” draw.
For Dealers and General Use
For practical reasons not requiring precise terms, draw length is the distance, at
the archer’s full draw, from the nocking point on the string to the back of the bow
at the arrow rest.
EXPLANATION: The standard Manufacturers is consistent with the Bow
Weight Standard as related to the pivot point. The DLPP plus 1 3/4” is compatible
to previous concepts of draw length. (See handle illustration.) Draw length
for Dealers and General Use relieves the burden of preciseness not required for
general use and facilitates determining arrow length. THIS STANDARD SUPERSEDES
THE PREVIOUS STANDARD."

[Ric O'Shay]

So the new standard is now the "true" and the previous standard is the "false"?
 
At the pivot point of my Hills, the riser is 2.25". Does that mean I've just decreased my "false", untrue or SUPERSEDED PREVIOUS STANDARD DRAW length by 1/2"? Because you can now only add 1 3/4". Right?

But wait, "facilitates determining arrow length". Does that mean that in order to comply with the new standard, I now have to cut 1/2" off all my arrows that I now draw to the back of the bow?

Or is just the opposite true and I have to glue an additional 1/2" to my arrows in order to know what my superseded arrows length should be?

                     

[TOEJAMMER]

Been shooting traditional bows for about 69 years and always measured it to the back of the shelf as did the bowyers from whom I purchased bows.  No reason to change now.  I suspect that if what is now called the true draw is prompted by the radical compound risers now seen.  Whatever floats your boat.

[Ric O'Shay]

Originally posted by TOEJAMMER:
Been shooting traditional bows for about 69 years and always measured it to the back of the shelf as did the bowyers from whom I purchased bows.  No reason to change now.  I suspect that if what is now called the true draw is prompted by the radical compound risers now seen.  Whatever floats your boat.

My self same sentiments. Thus the farcical comments that I have previously made. Why now do we have to change the definition of things and words we have known for centuries.

To quote a former President while under duress, "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is."
   

[LBR]

As far as I can find out, AMO/ATA specs were always deepest part of the grip plus 1.75".  That is usually the back of the grip, or very, very close.

I wasn't aware of the new standard, but I notice that it specifies "For practical reasons not requiring precise terms..."

'Course it only matters if the bowyer/company follows AMO/ATA specs to begin with, and uses a calibrated scale--many do not.

I have seen "true draw" used as a sales pitch.  For instance, a bow advertised to get X fps at 28" "true draw", which would be 29.75" as most measure it.

[Dave Worden]

I guess, like Ric, I don't care what the "true" draw wt or draw length is.  What matters is that I measure it consistently on my tuned bow so that I can replace arrows, strings, etc. easily.  Except for the replacement of items, I don't even care what the numbers are.  Personally, I draw 30 1/2 inches.  Except for getting/cutting shafts that are long enough to keep from falling off my rest, who cares?

[McDave]

Depending on the construction of the riser, there might be as much as three inches of wood between the pivot point of the riser and the back of the bow in some bows, and an inch or less in some others. Most bows fall somewhere in between.

So I don't think it's very accurate to measure poundage to the back of the bow, although we all do it, because it's simple.  Knowing the actual AMO poundage of my bows has never been that important to me. As long as it's within plus or minus two or three pounds, the smoothness of the draw might make one bow feel heavier than another one, even though it's actual AMO weight might be the same or less.

[Orion]

I've been shooting sticks for about 60 years now, and the AMO standard has been around for quite a while.  No need to get your undies in a bundle.  The 26 1/4 measurement, plus 1 3/4  will be very close to measuring to the back of the bow for most bows because most bow riser throats are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches deep.

For 90% of the bows out there, the AMO measurement will be within1/4 inch (or closer) of the back of the bow measurement.  That translates into 1/2# of draw weight, or less.  That's close enough for me.  Or stating it another way, either one is close enough for me. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[gregg dudley]

Originally posted by Sam McMichael:
Maybe this is why some folks just shoot different arrows till they find what works and skip the technical stuff.

[beaunaro]

I thought "true" and "false" only mattered in love life.

Learned something new again.

[LBR]

For me, I like to work smart, not hard.  Working with accurate numbers to begin with can cut back on the time it takes to get things done.  Maybe this is because I worked in construction for many years, and we never cut anything "to the nearest inch, give or take".  We cut it to the fraction of an inch.

I don't get torn up about things like fps, but I am a stickler for honesty.  If someone tells me "this bow shoots 200 fps with 10 gpp", but purposely leave off the part where they are drawing an extra 1.75" to get there, I don't care to do business with them.

Could be a hold-over from making strings too.  I learned long ago, the hard way, that a lot of bows and bowyers don't follow AMO.  That can be a royal pain in the butt for a stirng maker, at least one that hadn't yet learned to ask for string length rather than bow length.

Keep It Simple huh?

[Alexander Traditional]

Originally posted by Dave Worden:
I guess, like Ric, I don't care what the "true" draw wt or draw length is.  What matters is that I measure it consistently on my tuned bow so that I can replace arrows, strings, etc. easily.  Except for the replacement of items, I don't even care what the numbers are.  Personally, I draw 30 1/2 inches.  Except for getting/cutting shafts that are long enough to keep from falling off my rest, who cares?

I read this and couldn't see what all the hub bub was about. The above statement is how I see it also.