strings: type, materials, and expectations.

[Mike Mecredy]

This post has come after 12 years, of learning, experimenting, listening to others, listening to customers, success, failures, trial and error... you get my point.

Here's what I learned plain and simple; when it comes to bow strings and traditional bows, don't go from a superior string material/design to an inferior material/design and expect improvement.  

Example, you got a Flemish twist, ts-1, 10 strand string on your bow, don't go to a continuous loop, b-50, 18 strand string and expect desirable results.  You'll be disappointed, I've seen it happen.

If you are already using the b-50 continuous loop, and like what you got, that's fine. Some do.  

If you're getting good results with your D-97 and believe you can improve, don't go to B-55 and expected it, go to a string material with less stretch than the D-97.

I've been "schooled" over the years, I use be a stickler to B-50 and B-55. And nobody could tell me any different.  But that's not the reality.

I post this because of a few conversations I've had with customer that wonder why the bow I sold them isn't as good when they use the type of string they like, instead of the D-10 string it came with.  

Nearly 2 years ago I switched to Dyna flight 10. It was a real "green eggs and ham" type of experience for me.  

I'm not trying to berate your favorite string material here, but I'm just sharing my own personal experience, so don't be afraid to try the new stuff, just be sure your tips are designed for it.

[LBR]

Still blows me away that a lot of intelligent people, and even some very accomplished bowyers, take the string for granted.

There's a lot of advertising hype, as with anything else, but with a little homework you can get past that.

BCY has done some amazing things with bowstring material over the years, starting with one of the founders (Bob Destin) inventing the original Fast Flight material many years ago (when working for a different company), then the first blended material (450 Premium).

Now at the top of the line of choices we have 8190 (100% SK90 Dyneema--the highest grade available) and BCY-X (83% SK90 Dyneema and 17% Vectran).

Keep in mind though, you can make a lousy string with the best material;  and even with the best string you still have to do your part as far as tuning goes to get the most from it.

BCY is also willing to help answer any questions you might have and offer advice-no secrets as to what they use in any of their materials.  I really like that.

Chad

[Scott E]

I'm a D10 and 8125G fan for everything from self bows to modern recurves. A good bow won't live up to its potential without the right string.

[smokin joe]

This is a good thread (pardon the pun) for us trad archers. A quality, well-tuned string is vital to bow performance. Excellent info here.

[mooshkat]

I am not a pro at building strings by no means, most ones i have made over the years have been for my selbows made from B-50. Now i shoot mainly laminates, and have bought most of my strings, and have gotten hooked on skinny strings. Now i feel i want to make my own again, did some research and chose BCY-X, took my time made what i think is a good string. Put it on my Blacktail and was surprise at how loud it was, 20 strands and loops padded to 24, this is what was recomended to me. If the string is so good, why did i have to use so many strands, i was hoping like 12-14 strands, is there something i am missing, or did i pick the wrong string material, seems the string is fat, like a B-50 string would be.

[Mike Mecredy]

Sounds to me like too many strands.  BCY give lots of recommendation on their website for compounds but you don't need that many with a traditional bows.  BCY Force 10 (formerly D-10), what I use, I make the strings with 8 strands for anything below 50#, and 10 strands for 50#-55# and over 55# I'll use 12 strands.  I usually build up the serving area so the nocks will fit, but that's about it.  A string that's too bulky doesn't help when it pertains to noise and performance.

I think for most any draw weight you can get by with no more than 10 strands with D-10 (force 10)but I use more for the heavier draw weights with the tips in mind.  Padding the tips is a good idea when using less strands though.

[LBR]

First, BCY-X is a very small diameter material.  20 strands is comparable to 10-12 strands of Dynaflight '97. Not a "fat" string at all.

It's also very strong--you don't "have" to use 20 strands, but I find 18-20 strands (with the proper size serving)will give you a good nock fit on most any nock without having to do anything extra.  12-14 strands will be strong enough for most draw weights, although I expect it will creep more and wear out faster.

No idea on the noise.  I'm shooting a 20 strands (24 in the loops) on a 51@31 Samick Journey (very cheap bow--retails for around $130) and have gotten lots of comments on how quiet it is.  I have one small set of cat whiskers on the string and the carbon arrows I'm shooting only weigh around 8.5 gpp.

One of the reasons I chose this bow was because it's so cheap.  I wanted to give the material a run without the bow being a determining factor.  My thoughts were, if it will shoot good on a bow that costs less than $150 brand new, it should be a good string for any bow.

I've also gotten comments on the speed, and I find it to be very consistent and stable.  I shot one of my personal best scores ever the first time I took the bow out, averaging almost 9 points per target on a 3-D course.  There was some luck involved, but I also managed to win both targets on the long-shot novelty at the KY Tradfest--a deer set at approximately 100 yds, and a turkey set at approximately 75 yds--with this same bow.

One thing I have noticed about string materials is they can be like bows--individuals.  Very often it's not a case of setting the brace like the old string and tying the silencers on in a random spot.  You may have to re-tune and tinker a bit to get the most from any string, especially if you swap materials.

[Mike Mecredy]

"My thoughts were, if it will shoot good on a bow that costs less than $150 brand new, it should be a good string for any bow."

I like that philosophy LBR

[ishoot4thrills]

Currently, I'm using a 10 strand flemish twist D10 string. If I were to try an 8190 or BCY-X of the exact same specs as my D10 string, should my arrows still tune the same, with all else being equal and exactly the same as before changing to 8190 or BCY-X?

[Pete McMiller]

Agree Mike, I shoot 8 strand D10 on both my go-to bows.  One a 48# R/D LB and the other a 60# R/D LB.  Both shoot great and only rarely do I have to add a twist - very stable and quiet strings.

[LBR]

"If I were to try an 8190 or BCY-X of the exact same specs as my D10 string, should my arrows still tune the same, with all else being equal and exactly the same as before changing to 8190 or BCY-X?"

Should be close.

[Chris Jackson]

Pete I have a little experience with the question you just asked.  I shoot a 53lb at 25 inch hill style bow.  The 8190 strings are 16 strand and my D10 strings are 12 strand.  Both strings shoot the same arrow equally.  Or at least I'm not experienced enough to tell you a diff but the chrono does not lie.

[Rob DiStefano]

any "modern" bowstring fiber (dacron to hmpe and beyond) will work at least reasonably well if at least the minimum number of strands are used as based on strand tensile strength and bow holding weight at one's actual draw length.

all that matters to me with a bowstring is ... consistency.  hmpe polyethylene strings are simply more consistent than dacron polyester strings.  

since the hmpe tensile strength per strand is higher, sometimes outrageously higher than dacron, lighter strings can be used.  so you get a more consistent, faster, and typically quieter bowstring.  

hmpe strings are my standard - 10 strands of d'02 with 4 strands of padding in the endless loops.  just too much stretch and creep with dacron.  as always, ymmv.  

[Paul Shirek]

I like most of the string materials. I can like the old B50 but prefer the no stretch strings. In the no stretch category, there is just a tiny difference in terms of performance. However, one aspect I don't hear much about is the soft vs. hard issue. I think D97 is great and fast, but it seems harder than what I now use which is D10. The string slap seems to make harder strings more noisy to me. I also have liked 450+ for the same reason, it seems softer and thus quieter. Just a thought or two...

[slowbowjoe]

"In the no stretch category, there is just a tiny difference in terms of performance. However, one aspect I don't hear much about is the soft vs. hard issue. I think D97 is great and fast, but it seems harder than what I now use which is D10. The string slap seems to make harder strings more noisy to me. I also have liked 450+ for the same reason, it seems softer and thus quieter. Just a thought or two…"

X2. Learned a little about that recently when ordering my new string. I explained that I liked a softer feel to the string, rather than a tighter feel. Two of our sponsors (string makers) suggested the D10. That's what my string has, and I'm liking it.

[BWallace10327]

I like B50.  I get a new one every year.  They are very affordable, forgiving and the performance really isn't as bad as fast flight manufacturers would lead someone to believes.  I have tried small strings and gained about 7-8 fps.  It was a louder string, my nocks didn't fit it as well as I'd like and if my release was not perfect it was LOUD, like shooting a .22 blank.  However, I am waited for a few B55 strings to show up.  They are supposed to be about the same, but maybe a little less stretch when breaking them in.  To each their own, but maybe someday I will need to get a few more fps.

Lots of good points here.  I still wonder about bows not designed for modern strings.  Is one particular material or an adjustment to the string build more suitable for older bows than another?  
One observation I have on Hill style bows.  If a particular bow shoots nice with a tightly wound three ply B-50, with very little vibration or shock, there is less improvement in feel when going to a modern string than a Hill style bow that shoots rough with B-50 strings.  I always wonder what string would have been required to tame my old 89@27, back then we raised the brace heights on the kicky bows.

[Rob DiStefano]

as with much of life, and considering the diversity of archers, their bows, and their arrows, it may take a bit of trialing to find an hmpe string build that will work well with their bow (which allows modern string fibers - some bows won't).  

imho, hmpe fibers and skinny strings aren't about increased performance - because depending on many parameters, the increase may not be more than a few fps which just ain't much.  going from a 14 or 16 strand dacron string to a 10 strand hmpe string can yield a 10-15 fps increase in arrow speed.  again, lotsa things to consider.  

hmpe bowstrings are first and foremost about increased consistency over stretchy dacron.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pavan:
Lots of good points here.  I still wonder about bows not designed for modern strings.  Is one particular material or an adjustment to the string build more suitable for older bows than another?  
...

dacron polyester has a good amount of stretch and creep - like a shock absorber of sorts.  hmpe fibers have almost no stretch or creep and in comparison to dacron they're like steel wire, and that added vibration can literally blow off a limb tip that's not reinforced.  almost all older bows don't have reinforced limb tips.  craig's bows are reinforced and can easily handle any hmpe string, fat or skinny.  that's all there is to that.  

some folks can remember when kevlar was used for bowstrings back in the 70's (before hmpe, and during the dayze of b50 dacron that we all used), and how it would literally blow up limbs, let alone limb tips.  talk about a non-stretch fiber, yikes!

A buddy of mine had a Kevlar string for his metal Bear takedown. The limbs did not blow up.  The riser turned to exploding popcorn at the latches.  There are a few old cheap recurves in my circle of friends. I will save my b50 for them. Way back in the 60s, I made my first Flemish string per instruction from a very old book, S. Pope. I got some boot linen from Little Mauly, the local midget shoe repair guy.  That string did not have much stretch at all and it did crack the tip on my Montgomery/Pearson recurve. I need to start making my own hmpe strings for my mild r/d longbows and my Hill bows.  Which one is a good one to start with?