Light weight bows and penetration?

[ChuckC]

It stands to reason that a heavy bow casting heavy arrows WILL penetrate farther or deeper than a lighter bow casting lighter arrows.

Now... for the rest of the story.

You don't need 100" of penetration on a deer to kill it quite dead.  You (yes, YOU need to work it out with your gear, no matter what WE tell you here)need to determine, thru practice and thru experimentation just what is needed for the job you are about to undertake, and if your equipment and YOU are up to it.

There is much much more involved here than just simple physics.  All sorts of things factor in that affect arrow flight, placement of shot, animal movement, distance to target, type of target, junk in the way, mechanical advantage of the cutting surface etc etc.

I can't tell you 30# is enough, cause for every 30# pass thru you will hear about there will be a 60# failure, all because of "things".  

Try it, do you best, and work on being the best hunter you can be (translate. .  the ability to get closer and to set up shots better) and the best shot you can be (translate. . . hit what you aim at and KNOW where to aim).
ChuckC

[Rob DiStefano]

chuckc is on the money, as usual!  

[Plumber]

I got a question, if you have an archer shooting 50 lbs @ 25  an a archer shooting 50 @ 28 with the same arrow set up an same make an model bow are all things the same? fps,an penetration an such.thanks ED

[Orion]

Al lother things being equal, the arrow shot at the longer draw length will be faster.

[lbshooter]

I used a 45# Griizzly for years when I stared back in the 60's.  I probably was actually drawing 41-42#.  My 400 gr, Bear Razorhead tipped arrows almost always gave complete penetration on whitetails, even on angled shots.  50# was a heavyweight back then.

[njloco]

I'm a little puzzled now, I have LB, it is marked as being 50# @ 26" I draw 26 1/2". I figure it's 51#. It was custom made for the previous owner and, hits the wall at about 26 3/4"- 27"so, I don't think drawing this bow any further back would really help even if someone had a longer draw. My question would be, how could this benefit a person with a longer draw. Of corse this is irrelevant if we are talking about mass produced bow ( I hope I made myself clear ) and, don't mean to steal the thread.

[Scott E]

Two bows of the same design. One that is 45@28 and drawn to 28. The other 45@31 and drawn to 31. The 31 inch draw will be faster every time.

[Spookinelk]

Originally posted by njloco:
I'm a little puzzled now, I have LB, it is marked as being 50# @ 26" I draw 26 1/2". I figure it's 51#. It was custom made for the previous owner and, hits the wall at about 26 3/4"- 27"so, I don't think drawing this bow any further back would really help even if someone had a longer draw. My question would be, how could this benefit a person with a longer draw. Of corse this is irrelevant if we are talking about mass produced bow ( I hope I made myself clear ) and, don't mean to steal the thread.

Drawing any traditional bow further increases weight and power stroke whether it was custom made for a draw length or not. My son shoots an identical bow to my 50#  Journey but with  10# lighter limbs and shoots 10 fps faster, the difference is he has a 2.5" longer draw length, his bow scales at 46 at 31.5" and mine 52 at 29". All of this is with the same arrows. I guess my point is that at longer draw lengths lighter bows can be surprisingly powerful. Even with identical draw weights at a given draw length longer draws are more powerful, 40# @ 28" is a completely different animal than 40 @ 31", don't ask me to explain the physics, this is just my personal observation.

[Spookinelk]

Scott E, you hit the nail on the head !

[Rob DiStefano]

yes, longer draw lengths have a longer power stroke and that *might* *maybe* be a slight advantage of sorts over a shorter draw length.

also, do realize that for the most part the labeled weight on far too many stick bows can easily be off from -3# to +5# at the draw length listed. there are more than a few bowyers who's scales and labeling are off by Lots as validated when those bows are checked by a quality digital scale that's been verified.  from long experience, and i can tell y'all personal stories from over a span of 60 years of pulling string ....       :eek:  

then, there's the gain or loss in holding weight when a stick bow is under or over drawn from its listed draw length/weight.  i've seen that run from 1# to 3.5# in both directions.  lotsa dependencies, don't just assume, do the testing with a verified digital bow scale.

[Spookinelk]

Rob, I can't say that my scale is certified but both bows were scaled on my personal Easton digital scale at the specified draw length and shot side by side on the same chronograph using the same arrow. This was the only apples to apples comparison I have had an opportunity to do personally. I did this to calculate my 16 year olds KE to see where he was at with the 40 # marked bow, turned out his bow was faster...your mileage may vary

[Chris Jackson]

I wonder how many guys are ex compound shooters who assume they are a 28 inch draw in traditional gear just like on a compound bow?  My first trad bow was a hoyt dorado  45lb at 28 inches.  I assumed since I had a 28 inch draw just like my wheel bow.  Truth be told my draw is 25 inches and that little dorado with a 530 grain arrow and sharp broadhead had not a problem on game.  Never put it on a scale but I would guess it pulled a whopping 35 to 37 pounds.

[Wheels2]

Chris,
I don't know anyone who has not lost draw length by going form compound to recurve.  I lost just a tad over an inch myself.

[SlowBowinMO]

Originally posted by Wheels2:
Chris,
I don't know anyone who has not lost draw length by going form compound to recurve.  I lost just a tad over an inch myself.

True that, many guys who go from a recurve to say a Hill style bow lose another inch as well.

Tuning and shot selection/placement is always paramount, but even more critical with a lighter weight bow, as are total arrow set up selection choices.  Properly done, the lethality of even a very low draw weight bow is surprising.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Braveheart Archery:

Originally posted by Wheels2:
[qb]... Properly done, the lethality of even a very low draw weight bow is surprising. [/b]

absolutely true, and what separates the real archery experts from the weekend warrior hunters.  even a 20# holding weight launching a 250 grain arrow has the potential to kill something.  

this business of tackle for hunting is what should spur our sense of ethics - know thyself and thy limitations, and react accordingly with intent on game specifics to be hunted and killed.

[Wheels2]

I just bought a set of heavier limbs so I hope to have an extra 5#.  I have settled in on a 430 grain arrow.  It may go higher if I replace the inserts.
Still will be around 9 grains per #.

Originally posted by Wheels2:
Chris,
I don't know anyone who has not lost draw length by going form compound to recurve.  I lost just a tad over an inch myself.

When I first switched over from wheels, I lost a bit of draw length. A big reason for this is that most folks don't have a clue how to correctly use their back when they shoot a bow, and when they go to zero % letoff they cannot get to full draw!

After I learned how to use my back more correctly, I gained back what I lost, and a bit more!

As far as the OP's question goes, whenever I set up a new bow, my goal is always to get 10gpp with the best tune possible. The tune is the most important thing to me. If I have a great tune, but my arrow weight is 9.5gpp or 11gpp, it does not matter.

Bisch

[Rob DiStefano]

draw length is purely a product of form.  i went from freestyle fingers recurve to freestyle fingers compound and my draw length remained exactly the same.  with both, going from fingers to a release aid increased my raw length.  however, going from either of those freestyle bow formats to fingers instinctive required a tad shorter draw length for me.  we're all "experiments of one", do whatever it takes to excel.  it's all good.  

[tracker12]

Originally posted by Bisch:
 

Originally posted by Wheels2:
Chris,
I don't know anyone who has not lost draw length by going form compound to recurve.  I lost just a tad over an inch myself.

When I first switched over from wheels, I lost a bit of draw length. A big reason for this is that most folks don't have a clue how to correctly use their back when they shoot a bow, and when they go to zero % letoff they cannot get to full draw!

After I learned how to use my back more correctly, I gained back what I lost, and a bit more!

As far as the OP's question goes, whenever I set up a new bow, my goal is always to get 10gpp with the best tune possible. The tune is the most important thing to me. If I have a great tune, but my arrow weight is 9.5gpp or 11gpp, it does not matter.

Bisch [/b]

Same here.  29" draw with the wheel bow and pretty much the same with the trad bow.  Now that being said it has taken me two years to get the proper draw that gets me there.

[RickE]

In a way all this talk of bow weight is somewhat irrelevant.  A sharp, perfectly flying, heavy and fast arrow is what counts.  As someone else said above the critter won't care if you shot that arrow from a 40 lb bow with a 31 inch draw or a 50 lb bow with a 26 inch draw.....Unless you know how fast a given arrow weight is flying bow weight is of little importance.  I bet some high performance long drawn bows would outperform some short drawn bows of considerably heavier draw weight with the same arrow.  That would be fun to test out too....   Rick.