wood and carbon testing

[jmorgan41480]

hi guys - another arrow question.

recently been tuning some bows and found some consistencys. wondered if everyone else has similar results?
long story short i was set on wood shafts. bought a few test kits both parallel and tapered. seemed to be fighting the tapered shafts and switched to the parallel with better results. not great but better. had some carbons that i thought might work and i can stand at 20 yards and it flies like a frozen rope.
so my question is - is this just the difference between carbon and wood? the smaller diameter of carbons allow the bows to throw closer to the power(center) stroke of the bow? also seems like when shooting with carbons my bow hand is directly at the target versus pointing to the right (right handed shooter) with woods?

[Bladepeek]

Not a lot of details on spines, shaft length, etc, but it could be you are over-spined with the woodies and hit the perfect combination of spine/length/point weight with the carbons.

If all the woodies hit to the left of where you're aiming to varying degrees, they may all be a bit stiff - just some more stiff than others?

[sbschindler]

I think the real difference in carbon arrows is they recover so fast from archers paradox that more energy is transferred to momentum and forward motion than an arrow that expends more energy during archers paradox motions.

[jmorgan41480]

Blade-

i found the proper spine with parallel woodies - 40-45#. i also forgot to mention this was bare shaft testing. i took the 40-45 spine shaft and cut it to my length and put a 125 grain up front. they flew ok, but it just seemed that the carbons were more consistent and more forgiving?

[Bladepeek]

Makes sense. Carbon/fiber gunstocks are more stable and consistent than wood stocks for the most part. Still like my English walnut and Surewood shafts for traditiion and beauty.

[jmorgan41480]

when you tune the wood shafts, are you able to get consistent bare shaft results?

[gringol]

Something isnt right.  A well tuned set of woodies should fly as well as the carbons.

[MO Bow]

Originally posted by jmorgan41480:
when you tune the wood shafts, are you able to get consistent bare shaft results?

My lasst dozen flew consistently as bare shaft.  Still fly good with fletching.

[stumpinkaiser]

If you find the right wood arrow it will fly better than a carbon.

[Todd Cook]

Originally posted by stumpinkaiser:
If you find the right wood arrow it will fly better than a carbon.

I agree with this. If your woodies are not flying straight, something's not right.

[Cavscout9753]

Some people say tuning woodies is more difficult - probably because once spine, length, and strike plate are where they need to be you can just refine with tip weight and perhaps brace when it comes to carbons. Me, I'm the opposite. Ive found tuning wood to be much easier. The spine range on carbons is so broad theres just too many roads for me to follow. There's some things to consider with woods though, nock oriented properly with the grain? Spine tested for consistency? Just some considerations. Brace height and strike plate can also be toyed with to fine tune of course, but if your woods vary to much in spine or weight or the nock is misaligned, consistency can be hard to achieve. Just my .2c and probably not at all what you were looking for.

[Prairie Drifter]

Did you change your nock point when you switched to the carbons?

[Sawpilot 75]

Something doesn't sound right to me in regards to your woodies.. I have much better luck with wood than carbons.

[Rob DiStefano]

the organic nature of wood, and it's reaction to air temps, humidity, stress and overall shaft-to-shaft uniqueness all contribute to it's fussy nature whence compared to carbon fiber shafting.

all arrows have both static and dynamic spines. these numbers are much closer together in woodies and lots further apart for carbons.  woodies are typically spined in 5# ranges whilst carbons are spined in 20# ranges - ever think why?    

[Mike Gerardi]

I have never just cut wood shafts to "my" length. I always take a little off at a time according to where they hit or group. I do this with every new dozen of wood shafts I make.

[gringol]

Are you bareshafting the woodies?  I've had limited success with that.  Others swear by it, but IMO bareshafting woodies can't be frustrating.  Also, for a bow that is center cut or close to it, I usually have to use a wood shaft that is considerably stiffer than the spine rating that should match to bow.  For example, out of a 55# bow I'll use a shaft that's spined around 75#.

I have run into cedars with flared grain that would not shoot with the rest of the same dozen.  Another case a fellow had problems with his woods.  They all had flare grains, never buy wood shafts off Ebog, which he put on the point end. The arrows that had the top flare pointing away shot fine.  The arrows with the top flare pointing towards him shot bad.  I told him to shoot those with the cock feather in, then they shot with others.  Of course the feather had nothing to do with it, but something in his tuning wanted that top flared grain pointing away.  Flared grain arrows to me are shoot away arrows.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pavan:
I have run into cedars with flared grain that would not shoot with the rest of the same dozen.  Another case a fellow had problems with his woods.  They all had flare grains, never buy wood shafts off Ebog, which he put on the point end. The arrows that had the top flare pointing away shot fine.  The arrows with the top flare pointing towards him shot bad.  I told him to shoot those with the cock feather in, then they shot with others.  Of course the feather had nothing to do with it, but something in his tuning wanted that top flared grain pointing away.  Flared grain arrows to me are shoot away arrows.

a spine issue. this is why you need to check the RELATIVE spine b4 fletching up. easily done without a spine meter by comparing the bend of all shafts.

[Roger Norris]

Originally posted by jmorgan41480:
hi guys - another arrow question.

recently been tuning some bows and found some consistencys. wondered if everyone else has similar results?
long story short i was set on wood shafts. bought a few test kits both parallel and tapered. seemed to be fighting the tapered shafts and switched to the parallel with better results. not great but better. had some carbons that i thought might work and i can stand at 20 yards and it flies like a frozen rope.
so my question is - is this just the difference between carbon and wood? the smaller diameter of carbons allow the bows to throw closer to the power(center) stroke of the bow? also seems like when shooting with carbons my bow hand is directly at the target versus pointing to the right (right handed shooter) with woods?

You sound like you know what you are doing....but from your low post count, maybe you are new to traditional archery? My only reason for asking....I think sometimes wood arrows can frustrate a new (ish) traditional bow shooter. You might still be figuring out your form, style, and skill set. I almost always recommend aluminum or carbon shafts to a new shooter, it removes the variable of wood being a bit picky.

By the way... I never pick a HUNTING shaft based on "tradition" or "beauty". I choose a shaft on 3 criteria: Perfect flight. Arrow weight (penetration). Sound (silence)off the bow. I do have a desire to use wood arrows, and sometimes a wooden shaft meets those criteria. Sometimes not. I use what is most likely to help me arrive at a perfect shot on game.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Roger Norris:
... I almost always recommend aluminum or carbon shafts to a new shooter, it removes the variable of wood being a bit picky.

+1001