Bear self defense

[dragonheart]

Spray or handgun?  What do you guys carry?  I am leaning towards a Smith .41 mag.  What kinds of holsters do you use?

Anyone have experience using spray?  We never carried it when I was backpacking in my younger years, my dad always had a handgun.  Thoughts?

[Jim Wright]

If you lean towards a handgun, go on  www.customsixguns.com  and see gunsmith John Linebaugh's work with Ruger Blackhawks and the .45 Colt Cartridge.

[Stickbow]

I pack a .40 Glock in a holster that I slip through my shoulder strap so the butt rides forward. Just my personal choice.

It has been my experience that a Bear with its adrenalin pumping is hard to stop.I am under no illusions of stopping a charging Bear with a handgun. So in the end it is piece of mind.

[slivrslingr]

RMEF's Bugle magazine had an article last year (I think) that covered this topic really well.  What it came down to is that spray is more effective and easier to use.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

If I could pack a handgun during CA bow season it would be my 3" Smith&Wesson 44 mag.

[dragonheart]

I have .41 Smith and Wesson, N-frame, 4" barrel that I can use.  I am on a budget and looking for a side holster.  Thoughts?

[wingnut]

I pack a Ruger .480 with a 5" barrel.  Loaded with hard cast and heavy.  Will get full lengthwise penetration if needed.  John packs the same although he has a new Linebaugh .475 coming.

Mike

[Daz]

The best defense isn't spray or a handgun. It's knowledge and awareness.

Grizzlies vs. black. Coastal vs. interior. Remote bears versus bears that have regular human contact. Nature of contact. Bear avoidance. All of these things should come up before asking spray/vs. handgun.

Read Dr. Stephen Herrero's work. Find out about bear densities and habituation where you are hunting.

The simple statistical fact is the drive to where you are hunting is more likely to kill you than a bear.

[dragonheart]

I understand what you are saying about knowledge, and I understand there is a very unlikely chance of needing this, but I would like to be prepared if I get in a bad situation with a bear or other predator.

[Hummer3T]

Spray we are not allowed to carry hand guns.

[Machino]

I never worry in black bear country.  For griz I have carried both but, lean toward the handgun (.40Glock like Stickbow).  A lot of the places I hunt, black bears where griz are also present, it is so windy I don't know if I'd hit the bear or myself.  I also feel that even if the bear is full of adrenaline, I will be too.  And regardless of caliber, I'll have 15 chances to make it stop.  

I also agree with the awareness.  Be bear aware.

[calgarychef]

These discussions are always interesting, the Americans (no offence) seem to have an unnaturally high fear of critters.  Maybe it doesn't seem like to you guys but we notice it a lot in the discussions.   I don't know where this fear comes from as some states have lots of bears and cougars.  Small things are a bigger threat than carnivores; spiders, snakes, mosquitoes with West Nile fever, ticks with Lyme disease.  These are the things that can really mess us up.  

  It's been proven time and again that spray is more effective than bullets but alas it's not as macho and folks will argue in favour of guns in the face of this knowledge.  I'll admit that at night in the tent there's usually some form of firearm as I don't want to unleash the spray in the tent.  During the daytime I keep my can of spray within easy reach, not in the bottom of my pack.

 As mentioned earlier knowledge is the best defence, keep a clean camp and keep your whits about you while skulking through the bush.  Especially be vigilant round running water where the bears can't hear your approach.  Know what the food sources are for the time of year and be careful in a patch of food such as berries, or around dead carcasses.  My only serious grizzly encounter occurred on a dead moose, a lesson I've tucked away and I'll never forget.

Every time you see bear sign remember that it doesn't mean you've gotta flee the area.  Bears and cougars watch us way more than we realise, and any of us who've hunted much can remember finding their track on top of ours.  Enjoy the outdoors but don't get all twisted up worrying about animals.

[JimB]

Dragonheart,your .41 will work.A load like Federal's Castcore would be good.Simply Rugged makes a pancake holster that is very popular.

Black bears and grizzlies react entirely differently.If you light up a black bear,he will be down or gone-fast.It's the nature of the beast.Grizzlies are different in that sense.Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore has a good article on this and he's a guy who has walked the walk.

Spray is good but there are times when it can incapacitate you,like in a tent or with a strong wind in your face.We hunt into the wind and if you surprise a grizzly,it is probably because you have the wind in your face.If it is a very strong wind,it could get the spray in your face.

I don't worry about being able to handle a black bear and doubt I will ever need to but it pays to be aware.Grizzlies are a way more serious matter and if I spent a good bit of time in hardcore grizzly country,I would probably want to carry both.

[dragonheart]

Handgun helped in this situation to deter the charging bear.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s&list=PLBC86361DA8F07B73&index=6

Just asking about opinions and options to be prepared.

[Matty]

S&W 357 Air Lite I holster it through one of the nylon straps on my large frame pack in an easy to reach place. And in an accessory pocket in my day pack that happens to be on my hip, very convenient.

[killinstuff]

I'm guessing calgarychef you haven't snuck up on any grizzly before.  Griz make even me feel a sense of mortality and I don't scare easy.  I don't tote a gun or spray, but the guys I hunt with do and I'm pretty fast at running. 45-70 and ammo is easy to find.

As for black bears, the day might come when one stands its ground when I try to get a shot but I'll worry about that afterwords.

[ChuckC]

Calgary, about the only time I carry is in the tent, and frankly, I am not keen on the spray making it thru to the other side if the bear is standing on me.  I know that the chances are slim that I will ever get attacked by a bear, but you know. . .

Growing up I read all the stories about the one in a billion situation where the bear comes into camp and drags away one of my mates, to be eaten within earshot, while everybody else, of course unprotected, climbs a tree and can do nothing but listen.  I don't get to read about all the other campers who had no issues at all.

Sorry, that ain't gonna happen here.  I will have SOMETHING with which to try.  A stick, a spear, a gun, bear spray. .  whatever.

I don't (yet) hunt grizzly country.  I am more concerned with a cougar than a black bear where I trek.
Chuckc

[dragonheart]

These guys had bear spray and got charged several times.  Interesting that he squeaked his bike breaks and the bear charged.  

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s&list=PLBC86361DA8F07B73&index=6

[jhg]

From what I have read spray is much more effective in stopping a bear charge/attack in large part that few if any can bring a handgun to bear (pun not intended) in time and with enough accuracy and bear loads make it even worse allowing no follow up shot due to recoil and operator proficency/panic.
Whereas the spray requires no skill to fog the charge and enough proof of its effectiveness is out there now it being very effective stopping attacks almost 100% if not 100% effective when used.
I think the biggest hurdle is one of faith- its hard to put your life in the hands of a spray bottle when a gun seems so much more lethal, but its proven they are not because even a fatal shot will not stop a grizz most of the time before he/she has ripped on you while a spray stops them.

Using either would be pretty hairy given the circumstances leading to that decision.

Joshua

[wingnut]

I spend about 20 days in deep grizzly country each year during our moose hunt.  The area has a good population of bear as the state now allows locals two and they can now use bait.

That being said, we've seen bear each year we've been there and the closest was about a mile away.

I still will carry a large pistol when hunting and have it under my cot at night. Spray won't help much when he comes through the tent wall.  I have a lot of respect for grizzlies and have more then my share of close encounters over the years.

I feel safer with the gun.

Mike