Bear self defense

[dragonheart]

Thanks for the insight Mike.

[Machino]

Where are you going?

[beendare]

I've spent a lot of time in brownie country and when crossing alder choked canyons on say Kodiak, I carry a shotgun with double 00 and slugs with my bow on my back.

 I only started doing this after jumping a bedded bear at close range. I think mostly they want nothing to do with you but it's a sow and cubs that throws that out the window.

This may tick a few folks off but I think the F and G depts and many others glorify the spray and don't want folks putting bullets in those bears. One year I was in Ak, and the outward bound type youth group had a kid eaten- the bear came in to them cooking, they sprayed it,it ran off for a bit and came back and either killed the kid or seriously wounded him and a couple others I think(it's been awhile)bi think if you aren't a great hg shot, carry the spray, otherwise, the bang alone from a pistol has been enough to turn many bears.

If I was using the spray, I would be sure it shoots a long consistent stream for at least 20-30 seconds- some of them don't. Any handgun under a .41 mag is worthless. The .44 mag 300 gr Hornadys would be my choice in a handgun.

[Kevin Dill]

This is the list which I created, and which led me to decide on a good, reliable firearm:

Can haze a threatening bear and possibly stop a charge?  Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can wound or kill a bear?  Gun-yes.  Spray-no.
Can defend before bear is within 20'? Gun-yes.  Spray-no.
Can use during the night in tent?  Gun-yes.  Spray-not advised.
Can reload after using?  Gun-yes.  Spray-no.
Can ignore wind direction when using?  Gun-yes.  Spray-no.
Can practice with it?  Gun-yes.  Spray-does anyone practice?
Can fly it on aircraft?  Gun-yes.  Spray-not advised.
Can survival hunt with it?  Gun-yes.  Spray-no.
Can signal for help with it?  Gun-yes.  Spray-no.

Can be used without much practice?  Gun-no.  Spray-yes.
Can be bought at destination?  Gun-no.  Spray-yes.
Can be used in residential areas?  Gun-no.  Spray-yes.
Costs much less to acquire?  Gun-no.  Spray-yes.
Relies on compressed air?  Gun-no.  Spray-yes.

There are other considerations of course. I also asked a good number of guys who've spent a lot of time in Alaska's backcountry what they prefer. The overwhelming choice was a good firearm.

Something to think about. If you were injured or otherwise forced to spend a few days in a survival situation in the backcountry; and if you had to immediately choose between a single 12 oz can of pepper spray and a really good gun...which item would you choose?

[timbermoose]

i think it's a matter of preference and legalities. when i lived in the sates, i carried both and often left the handgun(ruger .44 mag) at camp due to the weight and packed my spray during the day. up here in canada, not legal to pack a handgun, so we carry the spray, never once needed either. had more than my share of close encounters with griz, blackies, cougars, bobs, even nutcase squirrels.

although, i have used the spray while camping with my family. on a couple drunk punks who were harrasing my sis-in-law. the didn't take kindly to me "manhandling" them off of her in the brush and one of them pulled a knife. they didn't like me after the spray.

[tippit]

I don't hunt Alaska...but I do hunt hogs and occasionally some pretty big ones.  I carry a 40 cal Glock when tracking a wounded hog.

[Orion]

I have to agree with Calgary and jhg.  Folks have an unhealthy fear of bears.  The Bear self-defense studies clearly showed that more folks were maimed and killed when using a gun for self defense as opposed to spray. If memory serves, there were no cases of persons being killed by a bear when using spray. Most folks aren't good pistol shots under the best of conditions. They're even worse under the high stress of a bear charge.

I carried a short barreled shotgun with slugs and buckshot when I hunted moose in Alaska 20 years ago.  If I had it to do over, I'd probably have a gun in camp, but pretty sure I would have a can of spray on my belt instead of a pistol when hunting.

Of course, it isn't an either or situation. The bear paranoid can carry both (but they get a little heavy.) If the spray doesn't do the job, or the bear comes back repeatedly, can always revert to the gun as the bear is chewing on you.  

[Paul_R]

Every bear I have flashed in the face with a laser (3) has made an immediate panic escape. Almost makes me think the 12 gauge it's mounted on isn't even necessary. Almost..

[JimB]

Keep in mind that the comparative statistics are somewhat skewed as guns are discharged when things get very serious and spray is often deployed with any type encounter,many of those at curious bears that got too close and weren't committed charges.

I'm not knocking bear spray.It has it's place and as Beendare stated,a lot of government employees are taught the company line and that is for civilians to carry spray instead of firearms.

The biggest negative for me is that the spray is a one shot deal and victims have been incapacitated by their own or a friends spray,during an attack.

Kevin Dill's post is worth reading again.

[Larrydawg]

that will make a man stain his shorts wont it!!
Larrydawg

[elkken]

I read some where that Black Bears actually account for more fatalities than Grizzlies do ... it was in an article on Black Bear attacks, and it is more likely you'll be attacked by an OLD boar than a female ...

[Kevin Dill]

I've been a part of these debates many times. I think it usually comes down to a guy's personal decision and what he prefers. Sometimes there is logic applied, but often the decision seems based on something heard or said regarding the pros and cons of guns or spray. Believing naively that any defense is vastly better than the other just might get you hurt.

I don't like packing a pistol. Spray weighs less. I usually have both with me on a trip. I've seen the Eichler video proving the persuasive power of a concussive blast from a large handgun in stopping a full-on charge. I'd like to see something similar showing a big hot-headed sow grizzly being shut down cold with a charge of pepper spray. I believe it works. Works better than a firearm? Ask the guys who are experts and who have access to the MOST effective defenses available. You would be hard-pressed to find an Alaska Wildlife Trooper trusting his spray more than a shotgun or stout handgun if risking an imminent bear attack.

Whatever you use, know its limitations. Know how to deploy it quickly and instinctively. Unholstering a handgun or spray can be awkward for the unpracticed. A bear isn't going to polish his nails while waiting for someone to get ready. If it never gets discharged, neither form of defense will be of any help. Practice.

[TaterHill Archer]

Originally posted by Jim Wright:
If you lean towards a handgun, go on  www.customsixguns.com  and see gunsmith John Linebaugh's work with Ruger Blackhawks and the .45 Colt Cartridge.

Good website.  Go there and click the "writings" link and  read the article on the .45 colt.  That was my choice in AK.

[JimB]

Good information here,as well:
 https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108

[chinook907]

I am always surprised how many folks mention the .41 in these threads. I don't carry often when I bowhunt but when I do it's an old blackhawk in .41 that I've had over 30 years, in a simple leather belt holster. It would be nice to have a freedom arms in 480, but more likely will switch to a Glock in 10mm.

Get a 40-something caliber handgun with stout bullets.

[Jay Bow]

Spray is fine under the right conditions but a hard cross wind or a wind in your face effects its performance.

[Caddo]

I'm in the "Knowledge is the best defense" Camp. When I lived in Alaska (11 years), I always carried a .44 MAG. Knowing full well it wouldn't stop a bear attack. Just made me feel better and would come in handy ina survival situation. If you've ever tried to hit a running bear with a handgun, you'll find that it's a pretty difficult thing to do. Especially when it's coming at you! We used to have a saying when I lived in AK for all of the folks that carried handguns for Bear Protection. Make sure that you file off the front sights and hammer. That way, when the bear takes it away from you and sticks it where the sun don't shine, it won't hurt near as much!
  Now, I carry all the time when hunting in Texas, mostly for the 2 legged varmits (meth heads and illegals) But when I go to Quebec Black bear hunting it's nothing but my bow. My how times have changed.

LD

[Mark Baker]

Some good info in this latest issue of Montana Outdoors on this very topic.   I'd suggest reading it.

 http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2014/bearspray.htm#.U7qoc7tOX4g

Knowledge is the best defense...not just what to do, but "why" bears charge in specific situations, and how to defend or prevent each.

[jhg]

Great article.
And the only "agenda" that spray advocates have IMO, is to educate people and make it safer for them in the bear woods. Its crazy to dismiss spray on the grounds that pushing its use is driven by anything other than proven results, but that opinion shows up regularly.
I still believe the biggest hurdle for using spray over a gun is mental. If I lived in grizz country I would struggle with that one myself.

Joshua

[DarkTimber]

There was a great article by Monty Browning about this subject in TBM magazine a few months back.  I believe Monty carried both spray and a 44 mag and would use the one that he felt would work the best in the given situation.  

I'm going to Alaska in 2015 and plan on doing the same.  I know I'm a poor shot with a pistol and I've seen how fast a bear can move.  I'm not going to kid myself and think I can hit and stop one coming at me at that speed but a pistol will at least give me peace of mind in the tent.  

I think Mr. Dill gave some great advise when he said know the limitations of whatever you use and how to use it.