Bare Shaft Tuning Issues

[scooter135]

So I have been trying to tune my bow with a bare shaft. I currently have a Bear Super Mag 48, right handed, 50# @ 28, drawing 28". The arrows I have been trying to tune it with are GT 5575's and GT 3555's. Both have 3 feather 4" standard nock, and the 5575's have 20g weights on the front. I have been shooting 125 field tips up front. When I shoot the 5575's the arrows bare shaft is flying to the right and nocking left. This I understand is that the shaft is weak so if I trim it down some it only amplifies the problem and the arrow goes harder to the right. With the 3555's I also get a flight to the right and nock left. I always understood that if the arrow bare shafting was coming off of the shelf and flying right, hitting right, and nock left that the shaft was too weak and needed to be stiffer. It seems that the stiffer I go though the more it flew right and amplifies the problem. What do you all think. I have 100g brass inserts on order that should be here soon. Also I have a Black Widow PSAX on order that should be in my hands in a few weeks, then I can sell my Bear. Thanks for the help.  :confused:

It is very hard to say what the problem is here, but if I were you, I would just wait till I got the new bow and start tuning it. Esp if you are planning on selling the Bear in a couple weeks.

Just shoot whichever flys the best with fletching installed for now and then work on getting things "right" in a few weeks when you get your new bow.

Bisch

[scooter135]

Yeah Bisch that is what I was gonna do, but I wanted to ensure I was shooting as good as possible with my bear just in case the BW didnt make it to me before opening day of the season.

[USMC0311]

You would not be left handed by chance. If you are right handed it could be a bow torque issue.

[moebow]

I'm with Bisch -- very hard to tell what the problem is  but here is a guess.

With the Super mag's short length, and pretty severe string angle at full draw, a really good release CAN be a problem.  

Shooting bare shaft REALLY accentuates execution errors that show up with the same characteristics as arrow spine problems.  Bare shafting is a way to "tune" but REQUIRES good (very consistent) execution of the shot.

You will have a longer bow in the PSAX and maybe better bare shaft results.  So depending you what you are wanting to do, you may save yourself some frustration and just wait for the Widow to come in and then try again.

Arne

[scooter135]

I am not left handed, but I am left eye dom..... which really sucks for military M9 qual, but over the years I have learned to adapt with both my hand guns and long guns.

[Bladepeek]

You don't mention the shaft length, but I was shooting the same 3555 arrows, cut to 30" +- 1/2" with my Kmag (52") and they flew well with 175 gr up front. The fact that you get worse results with the stiffer shaft makes me thin it is a release issue. Just because it's cheap and you're still waiting for the longer bow, I'd stick some 175 gr points on those 3555s and just see if it flies a bit better. I mean you are looking at some dead time until your new bow comes in. What do you have to lose?

[Overspined]

Touchy bow and string angle. The arrow sounds stiff just from the specs you provided.  A 50# bow won't usually go to a 55-75# carbon arrow! which spines I believe over 75# wood equivalent.

[NBK]

Your 55-75's might be too stiff, hitting the riser/shelf causing "weak" arrow flight.  Trimming them makes them stiffer resulting in more of a false weak signal.

[ozy clint]

i think your way too stiff. for me with a 58# border recurve 400's were too stiff with 350gr upfront at full length.

i'm just dialing in some 500'e with the same weight upfront. flight is as good as i've ever had. my big tuning eureka moment was finding out that the 400's everyone said to use were infact too stiff. you must start with a shaft that's weak and trim to tuned if using a given point weight.

[macbow]

You've got a few really knollageble guys saying wait for the new bow.
They even say it very nicely.
I never could shoot a really short by worth a dang. Just didn't have the form or a good enough release.

I suggest working hard on form for now and not get frustrated with the bare shaft tuning.

[Gil]

Are you shooting bareshafts(bershaft planing method)and fletdched shafts? Or just bareshaft and looking at the way it impacts the bale? The bareshaft planing method might be a better tool for tuning.

[gringol]

The 5575 are definitely stiff.  I shoot those from a 58# bow with 200+ grains up front.  You could try adding weight to the front, but if you're getting a new bow anyway, why bother.  Just sit tight and try not to think about shooting.  Maybe crack open a beer or two and just settle into a chair on the porch and wait for the mailman.

[scooter135]

I'm shooting bare shaft only for tuning purposes. I have some Axis' that are 400's too that are 9.8gpi that are not bare shaft but they seem to shoot the most consistent(10" circle) so since I'm not planning on using them for the BW I think I'm just gonna shoot them for now until the Widow comes in. I will take y'all's advice and wait to get down and dirty with the BW. I'm gonna upload a vid of me shooting here in about an hour or so that way everyone can have there way with how I shoot;-) and I will take advice anyone has. Thank you all for the help and assistance.

[BigJim]

you are too stiff. The arrow is bouncing off the riser causing the issue. This is why when you cut to stiffen it gets worse.
Definitely not enough weight up front. A 30" 3555 with a 125 is only about 405 g. That would be absolute minimum for a 50lb bow at 28" draw as far as weight goes, but not enough to get the 3555 to flex. Both the 5575 and the axis 400s are not ever going to fly correctly...yes, they look ok with feathers on, but trust me it is only poor arrow flight in disguise.
Good luck, BigJIm

[BigJim]

you are too stiff. The arrow is bouncing off the riser causing the issue. This is why when you cut to stiffen it gets worse.
Definitely not enough weight up front. A 30" 3555 with a 125 is only about 405 g. That would be absolute minimum for a 50lb bow at 28" draw as far as weight goes, but not enough to get the 3555 to flex. Both the 5575 and the axis 400s are not ever going to fly correctly...yes, they look ok with feathers on, but trust me it is only poor arrow flight in disguise.
Good luck, BigJIm

[scooter135]

I do have 100g brass inserts for the GT3555's on order, how about those with the 125's and the arrow at full length?

[scooter135]

I also know that when the widow comes in I'm gonna need a stiffer arrow according to there charts and info I have been reading. The bow was ordered at 52#@28" +/-2#

[Bladepeek]

While you're waiting that few weeks, grab a couple of 175 gr field points and try them on the 3555s. If they fly better, you know you are on the right track. Then you can play with some 200 gr or 225 gr if you really think you want to spend the time on it. That should tighten your groups up a bit if the arrow is bouncing off the shaft.

Then, when your new bow comes in, you will have a little more confidence going in. Don't get too concerned over the point of impact, as that will change with your new bow. Work on getting your form perfect and the groups as small as possible. Everybody seems to agree that you are probably way stiff and the arrows are bouncing off the shelf. If you can correct that without wasting a whole lot of time, you will start getting better groups. Settle for that and work on a clean release.

[scooter135]

Alright give me what yall got