Are we really this far behind?

[calgarychef]

One of the things we can do to combat these things is to get involved.  The IBEP program is a good one and I volunteer to instruct it whenever I get the chance.  Talk to the younger/newer hunters and share your experience.  This stuff al helps.

[halfseminole]

I should have said something too.  I was raised by three generations of men who were only at peace in the woods.  They would have broken my bow and beaten me with it if I had made the comment.  They would have been right, being my father, grandfather and great-grandfather.  I would let them, too.

We are too complacent.  I'm counting myself in there.  I spend half of every Walmart trip explaining fast light arrows are not the answer to compound and crossbow shooters.  Most of them marvel at the fact that my warbow is 70@36, and even though I can't shoot it forever I still practice with it so I can reliably hit with it.  What has happened to hunting when poor form, poor equipment and poor shots are paraded as correct?  If my granddad could still hunt, I think he'd cry.

I am not even a tenth of the hunter most of you are, but I work to get there.  There is a pervasive culture of shirking the work to be a hunter but wanting all the benefits thereof.  I thought the work was the benefit.

Shooting a deer is like shooting my deer target, which is like shooting my large stuffed target which is like shooting arrows in the air, except for the things that are way different. After killing dozens of deer with a life time of hunting, I am still amazed at their magnificent looks, their incredible awareness, their fantastic capabilities, and the way I about die every time one I want to shoot comes into bow range.  
   Shooting a game animal is nothing like shooting a target. Shooting a target is only preparation and practice, rather enjoyable at times, but still a long way from the real thing. No matter how hard we try to make target killing emulate hunting, it never gets there.
  There is quite a lot of emphasis on pretty wood and pretty bows, it is quite natural to want our beloved weapons to look like works of functional art.  
  I remember skimming past the post, but I thought it may have been someone just being snarky and sarcastic.

[LBR]

Are we really this far behind that we are not passing along REAL information that's 'Bowhunting 101' to the new 'generation/converts'???

It's not "us".  I'll explain.

I used to post regularly on a different site--a huge site with lots of different boards.  Obviously I spent most of my time on their traditional archery board.

I was removed from that board because I often disagree with the resident "guru" and his groupies.  This guy would often imply he had killed game while hunting, had coached "top ranked Olympic archers", etc. but when asked for specifics he'd disappear and his minions would monkey pile me for daring ask such of their leader.  

The guy made ridiculous claims on a regular basis, and a few of us would politely call him out on them.  I reckon we all got removed.

For example, he claimed that for every inch you draw past 28", you gain 10# worth of performance.  I asked what happened if you pulled a 40@28 to 24".  He ran away, the minions went nuts.

This guy has a book out on shooting, and it appears to be pretty popular.  It's carried in the big traditional stores.

Problem is, there's enough accurate information in it to confuse someone who doesn't know the difference.

That book, and sites like that, are the big problem IMO.  Not only do they promote idiocy and misinformation, they protect it from being corrected.

My opinion of course.

I'm pretty sure neither the author or mention of his book are allowed here, thank goodness.

[M60gunner]

I remember taking the "hunter safety course " gor Ca. Many years ago. The gentleman who taught the archery part stressed the sharpe Broadhead, well placed shot. It was on the test also. Doesn't every state require a hunter safety class? I know there are those who object to these classes but in my eye I see at least one way to get the message across about how bows and arrows work to harvest game.
Am I out of line here?

[TX FLY CASTER]

I read this after a bareshaft tuning session in the 97 degree Texas heat.........lol. This topic is very important to me as I begin passing on the bowhunting tradition to my sons (11 and 10 years old). I have always been a hunter and for the last 18 years that hunting has been with traditional archery gear. For me target archery is a means to hone and tune my skills for  hunting. With that being said , target archery for my sons is all about learning form , arrow tuning , the limits and how to extend the limits of their shooting. I agree that there is an overabundance of junk info. for the newer crowd , from light flat shooting arrows, needing the fastest bow and so on. This sport requires and deserves a higher commitment. As for shooting targets being the same as harvesting animals.............There is no comparison and I find the statement to be  immature at best.

[LongStick64]

Unfortunately just as the Wheel bow hunting has become more about the bow than the hunt so has Traditional bowhunting. This site and all the other "Trad" sites are filled with post showing off the latest and greatest. We can not be honest and say this sport is about a simple stick and string when many of the bows touted cost a small fortune and the materials are far from simple. The bow does not make the hunter. We don't talk enough about hunting methods,real woodsman skills. We talk about our new glitzy bow and the kill, nothing in between.

[Bud B.]

Didn't read the thread until it got locked. Then, after reading the last two pages, I just shook my head.

I'm looking forward to Sept 13th, opening day here in NC. I'll have 5" feathers. As a minimum, 4". I hope they're red soon after sunrise.

[Bud B.]

Originally posted by LBR:
 

Are we really this far behind that we are not passing along REAL information that's 'Bowhunting 101' to the new 'generation/converts'???

It's not "us".  I'll explain.

I used to post regularly on a different site--a huge site with lots of different boards.  Obviously I spent most of my time on their traditional archery board.

I was removed from that board because I often disagree with the resident "guru" and his groupies.  This guy would often imply he had killed game while hunting, had coached "top ranked Olympic archers", etc. but when asked for specifics he'd disappear and his minions would monkey pile me for daring ask such of their leader.  

The guy made ridiculous claims on a regular basis, and a few of us would politely call him out on them.  I reckon we all got removed.

For example, he claimed that for every inch you draw past 28", you gain 10# worth of performance.  I asked what happened if you pulled a 40@28 to 24".  He ran away, the minions went nuts.

This guy has a book out on shooting, and it appears to be pretty popular.  It's carried in the big traditional stores.

Problem is, there's enough accurate information in it to confuse someone who doesn't know the difference.

That book, and sites like that, are the big problem IMO.  Not only do they promote idiocy and misinformation, they protect it from being corrected.

My opinion of course.

I'm pretty sure neither the author or mention of his book are allowed here, thank goodness. [/b]

Funny you say this. I have visited that site on limited occasion, but know precisely of whom you speak. It didn't take long to see the writing on the wall.

[Danny Rowan]

Never read the thread. But, from what the gist of the comments you stated Terry, yes< I am shocked too.

Now, there is nothing wrong with showing off a new bow, just like any fine made weapon, people are proud of them. But the fine weapon does not make the shooter or hunter, it is time spent with that weapon practicing and refining your form and shot. And time spent in the woods practicing and learning.

Unfortunately, in this modern world, with all of the "famous" supposed hunters and their sponsers. They espouse the latest and greatest this or that and say they will make you a better hunter or shot.  NOT!!!!

YES, WE, must pass along our ethics  and experience to whoever we can honestly teach and who will honestly listen and learn.

[Gooserbat]

Now I stay away from the meat of things for the most part and do a lot of lurking, but as a "well rounded" individual who uses with both traditional and modern equipment I want to say that there are more than one reason for this kind of remarks.

One could be "Harvest Attitude" Where you manage your heard and you take a "Shooter or Target Buck".  Another reason could be a confusion with equipment requirements.  Back when I worked in a proshop I usually helped a lot of the traditional customers especially the newbies and my biggest challenge was getting them to understand that speed was not the big factor but rather arrow weight, bow tuning, and a quiet shot.  And lastly There are those that either are happy to be misinformed or are stubbornly set in there ways, and you can't change or direct someone with that mindset.

[RedShaft]

Let me ask what it was pertaining to directly so we can understand where he was coming from?

I'm no. Sure about the comment on looks. I bought a knife off Ben Tendick off this site because of looks and I also bought my bow because I liked the way it looked. They perform the same as a buck 110 or a used old bow at a garage sale. Not sure what he meant by it by not reading it myself. If this were based on performance everyone would be striving for one particluar model of whatever and this world would be boring.

But I will say this from a outside the box view. This group we have here on trad gang is a very small minority. Small... We are completely overtaken by x bow and modern archery and technology. I unfortunately look at us as the fly fishing snobs that look down there noses at a spin fisherman. That is the view of a many folks on this site. Everything they say or do or the equipment they use it the way to go. And are against anything but that way of thought. Hence tradgang. This was built on a traditional way. A one directional way. And sometimes we need to step back and look outside our little box here and view things from a differan perspective and take others views and thoughts of gear and not hold it against them or there way of thinking. Unless it goes outside ethical taking of game.or game violations.
 This site has a bit of a bad rap outside this box that is tradgang along with those that think it's my way or the highway. Now that is not meant to be rude. As I am here and enjoy this site very much. But it's not for everyone. And we have to be careful to judge those who are wanting to share our journey in traditional archery. Advise them and guide them along. Not stand back a throw stones. Remember we are hear because we are taking the pathe less traveled and we want to demonstrate to those that this is a path that is fun, rewarding, and challenging and there are those here willing to help those down that path and advise in the proper direction to go. That is how to be a good Stuart and a leader in traditional archery. An outside the box view. Bash away at me I have broad shoulders.

[Scott E]

It is always good to have an open mind.

[L82HUNT]

Well said Redshaft

[el chupa nibre]

Originally posted by RedShaft:
Let me ask what it was pertaining to directly so we can understand where he was coming from?

I'm no. Sure about the comment on looks. I bought a knife off Ben Tendick off this site because of looks and I also bought my bow because I liked the way it looked. They perform the same as a buck 110 or a used old bow at a garage sale. Not sure what he meant by it by not reading it myself. If this were based on performance everyone would be striving for one particluar model of whatever and this world would be boring.

But I will say this from a outside the box view. This group we have here on trad gang is a very small minority. Small... We are completely overtaken by x bow and modern archery and technology. I unfortunately look at us as the fly fishing snobs that look down there noses at a spin fisherman. That is the view of a many folks on this site. Everything they say or do or the equipment they use it the way to go. And are against anything but that way of thought. Hence tradgang. This was built on a traditional way. A one directional way. And sometimes we need to step back and look outside our little box here and view things from a differan perspective and take others views and thoughts of gear and not hold it against them or there way of thinking. Unless it goes outside ethical taking of game.or game violations.
 This site has a bit of a bad rap outside this box that is tradgang along with those that think it's my way or the highway. Now that is not meant to be rude. As I am here and enjoy this site very much. But it's not for everyone. And we have to be careful to judge those who are wanting to share our journey in traditional archery. Advise them and guide them along. Not stand back a throw stones. Remember we are hear because we are taking the pathe less traveled and we want to demonstrate to those that this is a path that is fun, rewarding, and challenging and there are those here willing to help those down that path and advise in the proper direction to go. That is how to be a good Stuart and a leader in traditional archery. An outside the box view. Bash away at me I have broad shoulders.

Hear, hear! Well said!

[TaterHill Archer]

Funny, I was typing a response to that thread and when I hit "add reply" the thread was closed.

[RC]

Anyone you have to explain this stuff too will probably never get it anyway.RC

It is possible to have different opinions and still be civil. There are are differences on here that do not turn into open warfare. For example, I like Hill style bows, and even though I have made some of my best hunting shots with recurves and set my record for consecutive hits on quarters tossed across my targets with a recurve, I just do not understand why anyone would want to hunt with those curvy things. I like rather heavy wood arrows, I am not so fond of rather heavy carbon arrows. Hunting with an arrow that weighs less than 500 grains is crazy, I keep telling myself that when I am looking for those whimpy 430 grain wood arrows in the dark after my wife shot them through a deer earlier that was already field dressed and tagged. She has never lost a deer that she hit, only 8 deer to date, but not one made it over 100 yards and most of those were shot with curvy bows. It is not apples compared to oranges, but there are a lot of ways to skin an apple and there are more variables often to consider, within reason, that don't always appear to fit common axioms.  Debating is fun, arguing is a waste of time if it based on prejudices.

[RC]

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat but there are also a lot of better ways. On a trad site right now a fellow is telling everyone how he shoots expandable heads with light wt arrows and under 45 lbs from a tradbow. He says he has killed deer with this setup and I don`t doubt that he has. But is his setup one I would point people too..heck no.Thats not what bothers me..what bothers me is no one is saying much about it.
  I seldom post anymore for different reasons but to see people with a few kills giving expert advise kinda upsets me.A fella can kill ten deer and be "lucky" on everyone of them. I shot over 9 in a row before I learned to shoot lower. Was I a bad bowhunter...no I was a brand new bowhunter with little experience. No internet of magazines only the school of hard knocks to learn from.That was over 300 big game animals ago .I wonder how things would have turned out for me if I had heard some of the advise given on trad forums by "experts" these days.
  Anybody that thinks shooting at a rubber deer is the same as a live one has shot at very few live ones and I for one take little stock in his opinion on bowhunting.RC

[tarponnut]

I agree completely with smoking joe's above comments about ethics.

I'm happy to say that over the last few years we've had many clients pass up shots on hogs because the angle wasn't right or it was tad too far. Some locals would say, "awww it's just a hog". Really?
I like the old adage, Character is how you behave when no one is watching.