Are we really this far behind?

[Cyclic-Rivers]

It is our responsibility to self police and teach.

I missed the thread and the post but if that stuff is left to the mods to find, then we failed as a group. Thanks Terry for pointing it out.

[ron w]

What Charlie said above.........

[BowDiddle]

Without having read the post in order to get the context of it I can't say anything one way or the other.

Is it possible he was saying that whether target or animal, you need to do your best to be accurate?

Anything you choose to let an arrow fly at becomes a target, oh be it - the live animal target requires & deserves a lot more consideration.

[ChuckC]

RC. . .  you know I was going to battle with him.  Problem is, folks look up to people that yell and beat their chests, not so much to those who are quiet and watch. . .  at least, from the start.

When that sort of person talks, lots of folks listen.  As I said above, there are lots of ways to kill a deer.  You can count on some of them, and you can really hope on 'others.  Kill one using the 'others and it helps you grow bigger. . . (you knows), and soon you are telling others that that is the shot to take.  

We need to teach a beginner the right way. .  and there is a right way, for much of this.  

As they get into it and gain experience, well they can do as they please and they have earned some of that right.
ChuckC

[longbow fanatic 1]

The comments are disturbing enough (if not taken out of context). Clearly the person who made them is ignorant about hunting versus target shooting. Perhaps this person has never killed an animal with a bow, let alone a traditional bow. If they had, they would know that they're completely different.

The more important point, which you so clearly stated, was that no one called this person on it. You're reminder that we, as a community, need to hold one another accountable for such comments and that we, as a community, need to preach ethical game harvests is right on! That is the essence of who we are as a group!

Thanks for the reminder!

[joe skipp]

I avoid threads like that....I bite my tongue. I'm sure my comments would get pulled. That's just me, an old time bowhunter with different ethics and beliefs.

It's also very frustrating when giving a Bowhunter Education class and 99% of the students shoot compounds and all their "beliefs" are based on all the hunting shows on TV. You just hope the information we provide sinks in, especially on shot placement and the need for sharp broadheads.

[CoachBGriff]

Originally posted by RedShaft:
Let me ask what it was pertaining to directly so we can understand where he was coming from?

I'm no. Sure about the comment on looks. I bought a knife off Ben Tendick off this site because of looks and I also bought my bow because I liked the way it looked. They perform the same as a buck 110 or a used old bow at a garage sale. Not sure what he meant by it by not reading it myself. If this were based on performance everyone would be striving for one particluar model of whatever and this world would be boring.

But I will say this from a outside the box view. This group we have here on trad gang is a very small minority. Small... We are completely overtaken by x bow and modern archery and technology. I unfortunately look at us as the fly fishing snobs that look down there noses at a spin fisherman. That is the view of a many folks on this site. Everything they say or do or the equipment they use it the way to go. And are against anything but that way of thought. Hence tradgang. This was built on a traditional way. A one directional way. And sometimes we need to step back and look outside our little box here and view things from a differan perspective and take others views and thoughts of gear and not hold it against them or there way of thinking. Unless it goes outside ethical taking of game.or game violations.
 This site has a bit of a bad rap outside this box that is tradgang along with those that think it's my way or the highway. Now that is not meant to be rude. As I am here and enjoy this site very much. But it's not for everyone. And we have to be careful to judge those who are wanting to share our journey in traditional archery. Advise them and guide them along. Not stand back a throw stones. Remember we are hear because we are taking the pathe less traveled and we want to demonstrate to those that this is a path that is fun, rewarding, and challenging and there are those here willing to help those down that path and advise in the proper direction to go. That is how to be a good Stuart and a leader in traditional archery. An outside the box view. Bash away at me I have broad shoulders.

[CoachBGriff]

Agreed!

[Matty]

I did read the entire thread, and when I saw the title of the thread I knew exactly what was going to happen as I've been here long enough to have seen it happen MANY times before. And sure enough...
I don't remember who wrote it. And unless he comes on here to defend himself... I'm thinking the point he was trying to make has been taken out of context. At the same time I think he was defending a thought of being labeled a "target shooter" over a "hunter" based literally on a decision that is his to make.
Although I  would not choose to use "the equipment" he chooses , it doesn't make me right or better. It was simply one mans view.
What I think we have to realize (and often forget)here is that we are reading words typed by others. We can't hear tones in their voices or see body language in what they are trying to relay.  As I read his post... I did not believe he was meaning what he said was a question of Ethics, but more about being mis categorized.
I hope for his sake if he is reading this that.. He does not think that TRADGANG hates him for his words.... We are not that group...
And if you feel compelled to defend yourself on this forum...whoever you were. Don't be afraid to come forward and do so....

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by RedShaft:
Let me ask what it was pertaining to directly so we can understand where he was coming from?

I'm no. Sure about the comment on looks. I bought a knife off Ben Tendick off this site because of looks and I also bought my bow because I liked the way it looked. They perform the same as a buck 110 or a used old bow at a garage sale. Not sure what he meant by it by not reading it myself. If this were based on performance everyone would be striving for one particluar model of whatever and this world would be boring.

But I will say this from a outside the box view. This group we have here on trad gang is a very small minority. Small... We are completely overtaken by x bow and modern archery and technology. I unfortunately look at us as the fly fishing snobs that look down there noses at a spin fisherman. That is the view of a many folks on this site. Everything they say or do or the equipment they use it the way to go. And are against anything but that way of thought. Hence tradgang. This was built on a traditional way. A one directional way. And sometimes we need to step back and look outside our little box here and view things from a differan perspective and take others views and thoughts of gear and not hold it against them or there way of thinking. Unless it goes outside ethical taking of game.or game violations.
 This site has a bit of a bad rap outside this box that is tradgang along with those that think it's my way or the highway. Now that is not meant to be rude. As I am here and enjoy this site very much. But it's not for everyone. And we have to be careful to judge those who are wanting to share our journey in traditional archery. Advise them and guide them along. Not stand back a throw stones. Remember we are hear because we are taking the pathe less traveled and we want to demonstrate to those that this is a path that is fun, rewarding, and challenging and there are those here willing to help those down that path and advise in the proper direction to go. That is how to be a good Stuart and a leader in traditional archery. An outside the box view. Bash away at me I have broad shoulders.

I guess I'm one of the few in disagreement with Redshaft. While we as a group may not choose to use modern equipment, I don't think the men and women on Tradgang are snobs (as you put it- the perception that is). In fact, the people here are some of the most generous and accepting people. Accepting of our differences, techniques and gear and generous to a fault. If there is a perception that TG'ers are snobs and judgmental, I don't know where that comes from. Jealousy? Insecurity? I don't know. I'm not trying to put words in Terry's mouth, but his point was that we need to challenge those comments. Everyone here, with a very small exception, would do so in a non-threatening, respectful manner. That said, I think you may have gone astray on your point by opening up a perception, real or imagined, that we on TG are viewed as elitists. WE ARE NOT! We simply have chosen to pursue our own journey in a fun, challenging, and above all, ethical way. That is what defines us as a group. If others don't like it, TOUGH! We should not apologize to anyone for who we are. I do, however, agree that we need to disagree and challenge one another respectfully and accept the entire bowhunting community as a whole. We are sportsmen and sportswomen with a common love of archery.

[m midd]

Its funny so many that didnt read the thread jumped on board to bash. I read the thread and the comment that  was made between hunting and targets was to achieve good arrow flight no matter what size feathers you are shooting and what your objective is either hunting or target shooting.

[Rob W.]

I always wondered what Facebook was like.

[CoachBGriff]

PLEASE NOTE:  I need to clarify...  I didn't accurately read all of the text I quoted before I foolishly quoted it.  I rarely sense "snobbery" from the fine people on this site.  

I just caught the part that said we need to mentor others who come to this site.  I learned so much from the kind folks on this site, and I feel the need to pass on the kindness!

[Todd Cook]

I did read some of the post, and bit my tongue too. It was about using itty bitty feathers(2") for hunting. When questioned about forgivness of larger feathers, release under real world conditions, ect, that's when the comment was made.

Basically it was whats the difference between shooting at a deer and a target?

And that right there is what Terry was talking about, I think. Read the last sentence of RC's post. It pretty much sums it up.

I thought this need for speed thing was for "other " types of equipment. This troubles me a bit. I hear these "trad police" comments, but then again, there are some things we know, don't we?

Like getting close. Inside 20 yards close. And shoot as many pounds as we can handle. Key word being handle. And shoot a heavy arrow with a proven, sharp broadhead, with enough fletching to help correct our mistakes.

Bottom line: Deer move, and they do it fast. I don't care how good of a shot you are, long pokes at whitetails with trad bows are disasters looking for a place to happen.

[Friend]

>>>Come to the Water<<<

Often times when the conversation has run dry, the remedial responses and posts tend to digress.

An alarming revelation is often experienced during lulls and even to be expected at any time. From ground control to Major Tom --As humans, it should be no surprise that we may have our feathers ruffled when exposed to the diversity of human nature.  The way of the traditional is held sacred, while our openness, acceptance and tolerance are often challenged as we too strive to develop into an aggrandized complete individual.

Through the integrity, camaraderie and spiritual adhesion of The Trad Gang family,  I saw a man who was brought to life…when away, the Trad Gang presence still lingers.  For I remain captivated by the resonating light of the Traditional and staunchly refuse to be suppressed by my childhood dreams of the past. We have been sent an angel.

We have the power to choose to be angry for ‘anger’ is a natural emotion.  Being angry at the wrong time may be counterproductive.  It is also, quite easy to complacently view such comments so far out of the grey area as “how stark is the here and now”.  Alienation would be unjust as we may deny the true treasures of the traditional way. May we successfully assemble the lost sheep for life is merely a moment in space.

 Sitting on our laurels, and accepting possible hints of blasphemy is the time to heed a certain call. Being inspired to both positively and collectively educate and offer secure guidance should provide a way to the dawn of the light and passage out of the dark…such that they may have the opportunity to dip themselves in magic waters.

[TaterHill Archer]

I read the whole thread too.  Like I say, I was trying to post when it was closed.  My opinion is that it was misunderstood (in the thread) for the most part.  It was his stance that the 2" feathers worked for him.  He wasn't really trying to "push" that idea on anyone.  It was pointed out that not everyone could or should try those feathers and that it was possible for them to be a recipe for disaster.  Initially, both points were well made.

[TaterHill Archer]

Double post

[Bowwild]

Interesting thread. Some of the best of what I like on this forum and some of what I like the least.

I feel no pressure to make a "killing" shot on my animal targets. I know that if I fail I'll get an immediate do-over. I know if I fail I won't be obligated to spend the rest of the day or longer following up that shot (and stinking up my hunting area). I know I won't be thinking about that poor shot until "next season" (or longer).

I have made some poor shots in my 46 years of bowhunting. I am proud to say that I have not made a poor shot DECISION since 1985 on a running antelope (thank God I missed it!)  I made another poor shot decision before that one, in 1971 (my 2nd year of bowhunting at age 17 -- Missed that one too!)

I am one who gets a kick out of a good feeling and good looking bow, IF it works for me. (Same with my squirrel rifles). I love beautiful woods and craftsmanship.  The good news is one can very readily have both these days; good shooting and good looking. In truth, there is a popular style of "traditional" bow that I can't stand the looks of and wouldn't keep if it was given too me. (In fact, one was given too me and I sent it to Alaska.)

Count me among those who will never criticize the compound bow. As a retired "bowhunter biologist" I appreciate what that style of bow did for bowhunting in terms of making our numbers a force to deal with.

Finally, I'm in agreement with a lot of the comments about several of those folks in front of the cameras.  I am quickly developing a distaste for all white-tail deer hunting shows just as I lost interest in bass fishing TV and shotgun hunting turkey shows long ago. I'd rather watch CNN (yuck) than those shows. And I LOVE to hunt white-tail deer!

But, some of "our" heroes have done and will do things while hunting that would not fit my personal ethic -- but that's why it is MY ethic. I don't insist anyone, not even my son adopt my stance on such issues (as long as laws aren't broken).

[TaterHill Archer]

Originally posted by Bowwild:


But, some of "our" heroes have done and will do things while hunting that would not fit my personal ethic -- but that's why it is MY ethic. I don't insist anyone, not even my son adopt my stance on such issues (as long as laws aren't broken).

[Terry Green]

My post had nothing to do with heros, pretty bows or ethics, it was about common sense,  bowhunting 101, and advice based on lack of knowledge and experience.

But then again, since others brought it up....if *I* don't pass on my personal morals and ethics onto my daughters .....who will???

See what I mean?

DON'T get pissed. ....THINK about it.