How sharp is "sharp enough"

[ChuckC]

It is that time of the year.  I really would like for this to be a discussion and not a means to raise blood pressures or cause name calling.

What is sharp enough ? and what does getting a blade that sharp do to the blade integrity itself.  A real question for me. .  if you need to use "almost no pressure" on the head for the final passes on a stone, or file, or burnishing rod (ceramic or other), what does that tell me about the possible integrity of the edge when it smacks into the side of a deer at 160 - 200 fps ?

We all say "scary sharp" but really. .  what the heck is that ?
ChuckC      

[huntnmuleys]

I think about this a lot.  and I don't know if I ever get it right, but when I use a 2 blade head, I get em sharp.  easily shave anyway.  but when I use a 3 blade (which I do primarily), I do the method that I learned when I shot wheels with montecs, where I basically sharpen two of the blades at once on a stone. makes it a much greater angle. they come out sharp, and will shave, but hair doesn't fly off as it does with the angle I use on a 2 blade.  but, the blade is much thicker and id presume stronger?  I don't know, but I do know that my performance, penetration wise, has been pretty much equal with both.  and the 3 blades are sooo strong...

I think it is a worthy question.  I have my observations from using files and diamond hones. Last year my wife shot two Bear heads through a buck. One was honed and stropped and absolutely shaving sharp, the other was one that was test fired into a bail, which was resharpened with a Grizzly file. There could have been different contacts on the hits, certainly, but the one that was smooth was quite dull after the hit and the one that I had resharpened with a file was still very sharp. Using my own custom single bevel Hills with either honed or filed edges, I have not seen any difference in the penetration or blood trails.  Some broadheads simply do better with razor smooth and razor sharp, while others seem to like files better. I think that it is differences in the hardness or the metal compound itself. Quite often I go with a razor smooth and sharp head and then put a light serration with the corner of a Grizzly file, which has an abrupt end to the file teeth and a rounded smooth narrow side. Even with that option, I wonder if a head shape like a Hill versus a head shape like a Deadhead would have an effect on the effectiveness of the serration.  I have noticed one definite difference, a single bevel Hill puts more blood on the ground quicker than a standard Hill, no matter how it is sharpened.

[LongStick64]

My assumption has always been that if I can shave hair easily with my broadhead it will do what a broadhead is meant to so and that is to cut.

[kenn1320]

I found that not all hair is created equal. I was depressed when I couldn't get my heads shaving sharp. Even sold woodsman elites cause "any idiot" can sharpen a 3 blade, but I couldn't. Then I met the guys on here at the Ohio trad hunt and found out my heads were super sharp according to all in camp, yet they wouldn't shave the hair on my arms. I learned the hair shaving test is not a great test for everybody.

[NY Yankee]

A fine razor edge that can pop hairs off may dull quickly if anything rubs on the edge. A simple "working edge" like on a pocket knife, that will cut cordage and card board well but may not shave hair is a more durable edge. That's what I try to get with a file edge. Something you don't want to run your thumb down the edge but just not going to shave with. At 160fps, THAT is going to cut lungs, heart, liver, etc. A file edge or Accusharp tool will do the same thing. Try the rubber band test. If it slices them on the first pass. then you're good. To me, Scary sharp is something you dont even want to get your finger near it because it will separate skin with very little effort.

[Ron LaClair]

I usually finish my heads on a hone steel that makes them shaving sharp. I had a friend that always put a serrated edge on his heads with the edge of a file. Someone after checking the edge on one of his heads said, "It's not shaving sharp" to which he said to him, "I don't wanna shave em I just wanna kill em"    :D

[bigbadjon]

Personally I sharpen mine the same way I sharpen my knives and keep them as sharp. I believe cutting paper is the most accurate way to determine sharpness. Shaving hair doesn't always work because a beefier edge may cut paper but the angle won't shave hair. To cleanly cut paper is a sharp edge and sharp enough for hunting.

[lt-m-grow]

I appreciate your comment on scary sharp...that has always made me laugh.  It is either a dumb expression or there are a lot of easily scared folks out there. :-)

Having said that, I have enjoyed the journey of learning how to get things sharp.  I am still on the journey, but I can get things sharp.  

I think the thing that matters more than we think and is the hardest to know without building the knife or BH yourself is the quality of the metal.

The sharpest edge I ever put on a knife was a custom knife a buddy got from a very amateur knife maker.  The general quality of craftsmanship was poor, but whatever metal he used was amazing.    It was not scary sharp, but it was wow  sharp when I got done and I didn't do anything special.

Back to your question, I would guess BH metal is generally ok (some poor and many very good) but I am beginning believe that even with one manufacturer the quality of metal varies a bit from head to head and thus some heads are sharper and, to your point, stay sharper than others.

[ChuckC]

Many of us have been doing this for a long time and already have our own ideas of what is needed and what is "sharp enough", but there are a lot of folks just starting out, or just switching to resharpenable heads that really don't know but really want to.

Obviously we want you to learn to sharpen a knife and broadhead.  It is one of our talents as a trad bowhunter.  We want you to use a good sharp head on the deer, for a lot of reasons, including penetration, good cutting, quick kills and, very important, to give us adequate blood trails to find the critter.

But the term "scary sharp" could mean a lot of things.  Put a butter knife in my wife's hands when I piss her off good and that thing is suddenly scary sharp, especially when her eyes dip down below belt level.  

Realistically speaking, not everybody can get a broadhead sharp enough to easily shave with, especially a three blade head, but I am asking opinions on whether that is actually necessary.  

Can it be not quite shaving sharp and still be adequate ?
CHuckC

[3arrows]

What simulates veins and arteries better than small rubber bands? What cuts rubber bands best? A serrated or file edge will cut more rubber bands than a scarey razor edge.

I can add that a filed edge may be rough, but still not keen.  The trick with a file is to stroke with machine like precision. Since you bring up those that are new to sharpening, I have see that most when first tying to sharpen with a file or a hand held diamond hone make a rounded stroke and get a rounded edge. An arrow holder is better for some to keep the arrow stable while filing or stroking with a diamond hone. If in doubt a KME knife sharpener will get the job done. Fergusson likes to leave a bit of grab on the edge, that is also what a keen serrated edge does. An artery is a stringy thing made of muscle fiber, it is tougher and it moves. While I have no doubts that a razor edge will cut  them, but what if that edge skidded off a rib first.  As John Schulz stated "I don't what to shave them, I want to kill them." The edge must have that artery cutting edge left after bone contact, it may very well be the serrated edge in softer metal broadheads is better.

[two4hooking]

Ron.....I may know who your friend was!  Love that quote!

[Slickhead]

"Scary Sharp" is a term as I know it to be, that one is scared to touch as they are most likely to get cut.
Now with that said my uncle use to hunt with dull broadheads. He'd practice in the dirt bank and then clean and go hunting.
He swore by the point that the KE energy would stretch the skin more with a dull blade/point, but eventually cut...making a much larger wound cavity.
With that said I saw some deer he shot and they looked like slug holes, but Im not recommending that.
But he was not shooting trad equipment.Xbow
Again depending on the critter, it doesnt take much to get to the vitals.
Lung tissue is delicate, so is liver tissue.
I like my BH able to pop hair on my arm.

[ishoot4thrills]

If it makes your eyes bleed when you look at the edge, then it's sharp enough.

Personally, I sharpen mine until they shave hair off of my arm. That's always been good enough for me.

[ron w]

As a tool maker for 38 years I know when I cut myself on a burr on a work piece I would bleed like a stuck hog. I tend to leave that last little burr and just strop a bit. Fred Bear liked a filed edge which I know had a bit of a burr. It worked for him.....lol!

[JamesKerr]

The first thing that should be made known about this is that not all broadheads and steels used in them are the same. Generally a softer steel or broadhead utilizing it like the old Razorheads will dull easier if the edge is truly honed to a final smooth shaving sharp edge either on leather or a fine grit stone. Those type of steels and broadheads are best used with a file sharpened edge. The original Woodsman is a good example of this. When I use my Woodsmans I file sharpen them and then use a medium grit stone 600 grit and make a very few passes just to remove any burrs left not to necessarily "hone" the edge. When I am using my Zwickeys or Simmons sharks I almost always start of file sharpening them to get the angle correct and then progressively go through a series of rough to smooth stone ending with a 1,000 grit stone. Both the simmons and the zwickey have harder steel according to the rockwell rating than the woodsman or bear razorhead. If one needs to prove though which edge causes more blood loss than feel free to nick yourself with a brand new razor and then do the same with an older razor that is still sharp and will cut hair but not truly shaving sharp. The smooth honed edge is the most effecient cut, regardless of what type of tissue is being cut. It just depends if your broadhead or knife has good enough (which most do) or hard enough steel (some do and some don't) to support the honed shaving sharp edge. I am not super fixated on either type of edge though as both have been proven time and time again over the course of time. Also let me say this, if an animal is shot through the lungs with a sharp broadhead regardless of it being file sharpened or honed there is going to be a lot of blood for the most part. Find what works best for your broadheads and for you and feel confident knowing that they are sharp.

[SuperK]

Some good info here.....Ya'll keep it coming!

[jkm97]

Great thread

[Pointer]

"Can it be not quite shaving sharp and still be adequate ?
CHuckC"

I think the answer is probably yes.  Whitetails are not thick skinned. A reasonably sharp broadhead will likely penetrate to the vitals without much difficulty. I have no evidence of this firsthand because I happen to like sharpening and I don't stop until the head will shave hair. But seeing how mine don't seem to slow down when they hit the deer, I'd guess something not quite as sharp will still get the job done.