form and perfect arrow flight

[ozy clint]

i've been tuning my recurve and have found that perfect arrow flight only happens when my form is perfect. if i consciously think of back tension while i draw arrow flight is great. if i don't it's not great. it makes tuning hard because sometimes it's hard to distinguish between tuning problems and form problems.

anyone else find that you really need to be on top of your form to get good arrow flight?

i can usually hit where i want to even on the shots where arrow flight is not perfect, just that good flight only happens with perfect form, for me.

[overbo]

This is exactly why I say bare shaft shooting isn't only for tuning arrow to bow. It really dose a great job in tuning shooting form.
Fletching, especially large fletching, can hide a lot in bow to arrow tuning and shooting form. When both obstacles are combined. Shooting consistency can be very challenging.

[MnFn]

Yes and yes

[moebow]

Absolutely Ozy!!  Poor execution will often make the arrow show flight characteristics that are often misinterpreted as tuning problems.

That's why I often tell beginners to just shoot what they have for a good while BEFORE they worry too much about "tuning."   It is very much a "cart and horse" situation.

Arne

[Kris]

 

"anyone else find that you really need to be on top of your form to get good arrow flight?"

For sure!  That's what makes me want to shoot everyday!  Nothing like perfect arrow fight!

I can obtain good arrow flight with less than perfect form and in my mind, that makes for a good hunting bow.  Conditions are always less than ideal when hunting but we still require perfect arrow flight for accuracy and penetration.

Practice perfect form but setup your bow to be forgiving under less than perfect situations.

Kris

[McDave]

Proved that to myself several years ago. I shoot 3 under.  For years, I would swear that the nocking point for 3 under had to be at least 5/8", but more commonly 3/4", and occasionally 7/8" or higher, in order to get level or slightly nock high bare shaft flight.  Then I started paying attention to the pressure I put on the string with each of my fingers.  I took a lot of pressure off my ring finger and transferred it to my index and middle fingers. Suddenly all my nock points dropped by at least 1/8", and some bows that I thought couldn't be tuned to shoot 3 under shoot just fine at 5/8".

[ozy clint]

Originally posted by Kris:
 

 

"anyone else find that you really need to be on top of your form to get good arrow flight?"


I can obtain good arrow flight with less than perfect form and in my mind, that makes for a good hunting bow.  Conditions are always less than ideal when hunting but we still require perfect arrow flight for accuracy and penetration.

Practice perfect form but setup your bow to be forgiving under less than perfect situations.

Kris [/b]

this is what worries me. it seems unforgiving of form errors. and hunting is like that all the time.

[NBK]

Yes Ozy,
Having a heck of a time trying to bareshaft new arrows to a bow right now.  (Actually discovering what you found in a past post about a weaker spine being needed).  I'm getting shelf contact with arrows that should work and I'm not totally convinced that's it's my form and not arrow spine that's to blame!  I'm obsessive about arrow tuning to a fault and if I could rule out the form factor I'd sleep better.

[Flying Dutchman]

Most of the time bareshafting tells more about your form then about your arrows  

[ozy clint]

cool, i'm glad i'm not the only one who has these problems.  :p  
we all fight the same battle by the looks of it.

[Cavscout9753]

This is the exact reason that when I am tuning, once I hit fatigue and feel my form start to get even a little sloppy, I stop. Tuning is frustrating enough on its own, no need to chase your form all over the yard as well.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Ozy,

I may get a bunch of flack over this comment, but i've found that a slightly weak shaft with decent sized feathers is the most forgiving set up for me.

I played with those itty bitty fletching and all the bare shaft tuning stuff till i was blue in the face, and came up with exactly what you just explained. As long as my form was perfect, the arrows flew great.....  I took the same arrows and put 4" fletching on them and it made a world of difference....

The big one i've found with using arrows that are borderline on the stiff side is that if i get into a weird position where i can't quite hit anchor,i consistently hit left. And if I'm swing shooting, or wing shooting, a less than perfect release effects the flight much more than if those arrows are a tad bit weak...

Kirk

[Terry Green]

Yes and No....

It really could be bad form.....

OR....

It could be you are borderline on some part of your tuning or spine as well.

   

[riverrat 2]

Ozy a lot of good advise has been given to you here. I will add this. I draw,I make certain I am fully drawn as I dig my middle finger on my string hand into my mouths corner. I pull an imaginary line that goes from my arrow as it rests on its shelf,to my bowstring hand,across my chest and apex into my string arms elbow point...fully drawn....middle finger dug into my mouths corner. I am aiming through the entire draw cycle. When I reach my anchor point,I look down that 2018,I check/adjust my point-on/gap point as I see fit from the 10,000 prior shots I have made,then and only when I feel I know what is about to happen........I loose that arrow. I love a programmed shot sequence.   rat'

[ozy clint]

another question-

can you have less than 'perfect' form that causes erratic flight but still be accurate?

i can hit what i want to hit and am often happy with my accuracy it's the less than perfect flight that eludes me and causes frustration. i can get it sometimes but not consistently everytime i shoot an arrow. it's certainly not what i'd consider forgiving that's for sure.

i'm not sure how you can be accurate with poor form that causes bad flight.

i'd rather have the problem the other way around- perfect flight every shot and having to work on accuracy.

[Todd Cook]

Yes good form is important, no doubt. But for me, some bows are much easier to have consistently good arrow flight with. I can shoot most 64" or longer bows without much trouble, as long as their not too fast. I mostly shoot Hill styles or my 66" mild R/D and To me they about shoot themselves.

Short, radical hybrids or short recurves are much harder for me to be consistent with. Always have been.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

I am experiencing a bit of what you are at the Moment Ozzy.

My arrows were flying Great until one ay they were erratic. Still going where they needed to but fishtailing there.  

I realized how I grip the bow plays some effect on this.  Over gripping the bow was causing bad flight for me. I was shooting 55 lbs and the shafts are 35/55 shafts with 250 grains on the front and 3-4.5 inch feathers.

[ozy clint]

Originally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
I am experiencing a bit of what you are at the Moment Ozzy.

My arrows were flying Great until one ay they were erratic. Still going where they needed to but fishtailing there.  
 

that's what i'm getting. they fly to the mark but with some slight fishtailing. i too have found bowgrip to be very influential to arrow flight.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Ozy, It was ddriving me nuts but for our deer the slight fishtail doesnt baother me so much especially since the shots will be close.

Not sure what you will encounter with your mountain hunts.

If I cannot rectify it by deer season I have determined to use another bow that I get better flight from.

The nice thing is, I know its me since I spent the whole summer with perfect flight now something is awry. I set it down for a  week and hope to come back fresh to see what happens.

I wish you the best of luck and if you figure it out, please let me know.. That will give me something to try.

[ozy clint]

this morning i played with nock point and found i got good flight after i moved it up to 13/16"