Right on...thanks for the info. One of the last pieces I'm looking at getting for building watersticks. not needed but it sure would be nice.
I'm by no means an expert with the stuff. I was a small time builder for a local shop and by word of mouth. I didn't have the desire to get bigger than that and that itself became to big. I have had issues and here are some of them, along with my thoughts in general.
I will warn you, overcoating white in particular, caps or crests with profin will discolor your white. If you're white matches your fletching, overcoating with PF will change the hue and make them mis match. I know all about your OCD issue when it comes to twig making
. The more coats the more change you'll see so be warned!
Some more PF tips I've had issues with in the past.
PF likes to separate, finish and drying agent. You cant/wont see it, but you WILL see it in your dry/cure times, here I thought it was temps/MC/cold walls even. Its like using silver/gold cresting paints, they need to be stirred every so often for me its after a handful bands my silver and gold thins (separates) out to a point I don't like it so a quick stir with a tooth pic and I'm back striping. Anyways with dipping PF, I've found I've had to mix my tube up and let the bubbles dissipate than get to dipping. I've gotten to a point I do this before I dip ANY shafts!!!!! If I let it sit, or had it sitting for a period of time and tried to dip, they just wouldn't dry, taking forever even at warmer temps with low humidity. It may be an older batch of PF sitting on the store shelf for too long as I don't know anyone around here that uses the stuff other than myself though I'm sure there is....The shelf life might be a lot older than 'remotely fresh' here lol. I'm not sure what has caused it...if you experience it, this is likely your fix.
I used to use a big buddy heater in the room to help with temps due to the slow dry time but found that temp wasn't THE big issue. Tipping my tube a time or two was enough, make sure the caps on tight LOL. Temps are a consideration so if you're in a cold environment or by a cold wall it may not be a bad thing to use. General house temps is normally enough...
Being its a slow drying finish regardless, like the Massey finish, you may find making some form of drying box worth while if you don't have some form of booth all together. Mine was a simple cardboard concoction, nothing fancy. It worked, but was awful rednecked lol. At times it bit me more than it helped, kicking up dust in the room. I don't mess with it anymore these days. If I get a lump, which I do from time to time, I'll let it dry, slice (or sand if I come back to them a few days later or more) the bad spot and re-dip...I don't build to sell anymore so I'm not building for anyone else, after another dip the lumps are gone and impossible to ever find anyways if I did a decent job with the knife. If you're worried about it, get close, let it cure, than sand it smooth with 220 or finer grit. A coat or two will get rid of any sand marks as long as you don't use to course of paper, if so, work finer grits than recoat. If you really want to take this to the ocd level...look at bamboo fly rod builders varnishing cabinets. Completely enclosed with lights, no dust, perfect finishes!
If you do sand PF, lumps in particular, I don't recommend hitting them with steelwool right away after slicing a lump. Instead cut the lump, let them cure a day or so than hit them with steelwool/sandpaper. At times the inside of that lump isn't cured or likely will never cure which means a mess after you apply a little friction with 0000 SW. Steel wool really blows as anything other than a final buff to knock the gloss off if that's your bag. I like high gloss and I hate finding fibers in the finish. Even after running tack cloths they still exist. I'm more tolerant of them these days but I still hate them with a passion. yes, I truly HATE using steel wool other than the easy of which it is to use.
Profin, epoxy and a few other finishes are prone to dust issues more than other finishes due to this slow dry time. Which is the last reason I don't overcoat my cresting/caps with profin. That slicing the lumps turns into slicing bands off or slicing through the cap all together if you get an oops. And with the fine pin strips you can put on with the arrow specialties crestor and good paint viscosity(most is thinned to some degree), you'll regret cutting/sanding one! My caps are not as high of a gloss as profin over the rest of the arrow. I use white in my paint scheme and have learned not to use PF to overcoat due to this color change, it doesn't look right with my caps with a coat or three of PF on top. For me the only need to overcoat at all is to even out the shafts gloss otherwise it really looks messed up if I don't put something on the cap. PF has a high gloss to it that I like. My caps are nothing close to the shine of pf. A waterbased high gloss poly has worked well for me.
Clean your dip tubes well....when you thought they were clean, clean again! Cut the bottoms and buy some large corks from a hardware store. A couple turns of electrical tape works wonders for added insurance. The only time you need to decork is to clean the tube out good. this allows you access to the bottom where the crud likes to hide.
Use the cheap paint strainers before emptying the tubes or filling them. It really stinks when you blow a gallon can of PF with some dust from a caked up dip tube you thought was clean. I don't have an air compressor but I would highly recommend hitting the tubes with air before you fill them and again a time or three after they're cleaned to ensure no cross contamination (plus using the filters at all times!) if you have one. I'd rather not get a lump to deal with in the first place though its going to happen on occasion, preventative maintenance generally prevails here.
The joys of profin is the fine finish. I'm eagerly awaiting to try it on a bamboo fly rod! It really is a super nice finish! I like a high gloss. Its durable enough for my use only 2nd to epoxy and that's only due to the lack of burn with epoxy. I like the color PF gives unstained wood. For me in overall ratings its tops. Though it has its quirks. Epoxy is better in waterproofness and has 0 target burn. I'm a bit sensitive to epoxy due to some wood working projects so I try to stay clear of it in any amount these days. I have used it in the past. Epoxy shafts wear like gold and has 0 target burn..did I say 0!!! Plus epoxy does take longer to apply and you end up screwing around with rags/patches to wipe it on with and than dispose of. So profin it is!
One of the downfalls is the target burn PF has. Unless you shoot epoxy of some sort (devcon 2 ton with acetone), or apply something to the shaft like bar soap to help with the burn, you're going to burn with PF to varying degrees. Depending on what you shoot into, it can burn bad! Those edge grain super fine particle board backstops are the worst and impossible to get off without sanding and a redip. There is little to no burn in block like targets so to say you're going to get it 100% of the time is false. your backstop will determine it...but PF in general will give you a higher rate compared to other finishes over all imho.
As for over coating...I should have listened to Bob years ago when I first started using the stuff. It will save you a pile of headaches through the years.
There's no need to add a scuff coat proper. If you pick good capping/cresting paints that match the shine of the PF I wouldn't waste your time. You may streak a cresting line, but you're going to do it with one overcoat as well more often than not if you shoot enough or slap arrows together in targets. As you'll find over time our paints/sealers/glues are changing rapidly. Using the SW opex Lacquer for caps and crests is a thing of the past for me up here (which really blows, if you can find it use it thinned 5050 to 6040 thinner paint, here the only way to get it it is by the pallet and I haven't looked for a few years which makes for multiple lifetimes supply of paint!). its a matter of time before we get the next monkey wrench in our finishing scheme to come around. If you find paints to match your finish and a glue to stick to it, personally I wouldn't mess with overcoating honestly. Its been a thorn in my side since I started painting which was my 2nd or 3rd set of arrows. I've not been able to eliminate the overcoat due to my capping paints and really have no need at this time to spend the money again trying to find something that does work to my likings. No overcoat would best imho!
I've tinkered for 25 years now with this...You'd think I have it figgered out by now haha! NOT!
A few years back I got lazy. Not me..really no I'm not
. I finished my shafts per normal. Some were capped and crested, some were not and were just bare wood full dipped in PF. The bare wood was overcoated with PF. The capped crested was not, doing my normal pf to the cap, with waterbase poly over the cresting and cap to even things out.
I've used fletch tape from time to time...its great with epoxy, otherwise, its JUNK! Ok, that's not entirely true...but with the waterbase I had it on, it wouldn't stick good enough that in cold temps it popped off. It didn't stay on my PF either...most had a dab of glue at the front and back edges...a couple of my stumping I didn't bother with, they weren't the greatest shafts so I didn't waste the time, they were the first to have feathers pop.
How cold?
I was in pa hunting deer...roving one afternoon because there aint a dang small game animal in the blasted state to get exited going after other than skunks and chucks (another rant lol), I shot an arrow and feathers came off..it was cool, by no means anywhere near cold.
I came home and ran up north for a bou hunt. They were on the move and the weather was nice. Key word here is was. The first day I got up, making camp on the north side, the place was devoid of animals. The wind picked up and temps started diving. I had some buddies at the DOT camp so I stopped in to chat, get a forcast and hang out a little. Come to find out the migration was rolling through the valley they were working in. I ran north grabbed my garb and moved camp to a more 'moderate temp area' and headed out after those bou when my buddy came out to chat. I was sitting in my truck refletching with duco by hand. When he metioned the temps. -50 w/o windchill and it was blowing like mad. I'm not saying you need crazy cold temps for the tape to release...what I'm saying is it WILL release on certain finishes. I watched what we guessed was 1000 plus animals roll by as I sat in the pull out by camp heater on high in the truck trying to refletch by hand. To say I was peeved would be an understatement! That night has to be the coldest night I've ever camped in. My feet were ice blocks in the morning. Between the two I had enough and made the drive home. Never regret going...but not happy about using the tape or freezing my tail off. I rarely get cold!
I've been told its a lacquer based tape and not to use it on certain finishes after doing some digging when I got home. I have no desire to look into this farther or do more experiments. I spent most of the day trying to find feathers laying on the tundra and glue them back on. Thankfully red on white sticks out like a neon sign! I still have those arrows made up for grousin arras.
Topic: ProFin and Testors paint (Read 1580 times)
