paper tuning...weird results

[ozy clint]

my tuning saga continues.....

long story short, i sold a bow and bought a new one. the 400 axis arrows i had for the old one weren't flying as good as i liked anyway and they were worse with the new bow, 1# heavier and lots more efficient. tried 340's and no good.
desparation led me to 500's. intially this made a big difference but now i'm doubting whether they are the go or not.

i trimmed and tested the 500's from full length to too short and never could quite get consistent good flight.

i tried paper tuning again for the 1st time in years and i find with the 500's i'm getting a combo of high left tears. (10 o'clock) i've moved the nock point everywhere from about an 1" to 5/16" and it tears high all the time. i managed to correct the left tear by putting a 425gr point on it for a total of 525 upfront with the 100gr insert. with less point weight than this the left tears get worse as you drop weight. now isn't left tear supposed to be weak? then why does making it weaker get rid of the left tear?

out of curiousity i tried the original 400 spine arrow i used to shoot which i originally couldn't get to fly right and just to frustrate me more they fly good and nearly give bullet holes i paper.    
now i'm thinking of going back to them because now they fly consistently good. maybe some how my form has evoved during my 6 months or more of trying to get everything tuned and this makes them fly good now.

here's the weird thing i don't understand.
the 500 is about an inch shorter than the 400, which is 30", yet it needs 525gr up front to get rid of left tears. even with 100gr points the 500 gives worse left tears. i can not get a right tear with them.

i played with point weight on the 400 and i can move the tear left and right with changes in point weight and up and down with nock height. i can't get rid of nock high tears with the 500, it takes huge weight upfront to get rid of nock left tears and i've never got a nock right tear with them.

[Caughtandhobble]

Looking at your avatar it looks like you're right handed. Left tear is weak. Good luck.

[Mr. fingers]

When an arrow is too weak it will give you all kinds of  miss readings because it's like a wet noodle. Have you  tried paper tuning at different distances I usually go from six feet til I have a bullet. Then go back to 10 yds. If I'm still getting a bullet then I know I'm good.
Sound like the 400 s are your best bet.
For the nock hight tears do you shoot 3 under?
I always got nock high when I shot 3 under.
Try shooting cock feather in.

[flungonin]

Couple of questions might seem frevilous:
 You said this is a new bow, is your grip consistant, no torque.
 I imagine you are shooting feathers, is the cock feather pointed out
 Is your arrow side plate further from center than on the bow you sold, Is the sight window the same.
  Have you tried tuning your arrows to the new bow, forget the paper for a bit, you know one arrow fletched and one not, shoot and cut a bit from each and repeat shoot, cut a bit repeat til they are knocking each other or at least less than a inch

[ozy clint]

i shoot 4x4" feathers at 90 degrees. i don't think it's that because it works ok with the 400's according to paper and arrow flight.

split finger shooting also.

if left tear is weak why does the left tear get better with lots of weight upfront and worse with less weight upfront on the 500?

i don't think it's a form issue because i'm getting consistent tears with the 400's and 500's, they are not random tears. unless there's something in my form that i can change that will change the arrow flight and be consistent. i always thought poor form would show itself as erratic, random results.  

flungonin- i can get a BH and a bare to hit the same spot just the BH flys crap! that's why i've given up on that adcock method for now.

[RLA]

If your shooting the BD bow in your tag line it's probably cut well past center, more so than most other bows. Try a bear weather rest it just might cure your nock high & help with the nock left. I think you'll need the 400's but 300 grains + seems like a ton up front, especially with a 30" arrow.

[KentuckyTJ]

Yep Im with RLA Clint, play with the side plate.

[Paul_R]

Originally posted by ozy clint:


if left tear is weak why does the left tear get better with lots of weight upfront and worse with less weight upfront on the 500?

 

Could be a false weak. Depending on a variety of factors, spine, form, the bow itself,  arrows can hit the riser and kick out. I had that happen to me recently. In my case it was a spine issue, they were stiff but indicated weak.

[ozy clint]

yes it's my border recurve. i have padded out the strike plate so that the arrow sits just outside of center.

false weak? so you mean a shaft that is so stiff it shows weak? that seems unlikely since the 400 at 30" with 350gr upfront seems to shoot good and the 500 at 29" needs 525gr upfront???

[Car54]

I probably missed it...but, are you shooting the 70# limbs or the 58# limbs?  
This might help the tuning experts on here.
Hope this helps.

[Marshallrobinson]

As was said, a weak arrow will do all kinds of stuff.
First thing that went through my mind was your distance from the paper. On a too weak shaft, you can vary your distance by as little as a foot (depending on how sever the weakness is) from the paper and get right tears from the same arrow that was tearing left.
First thing I would do is a walk back on the paper to see if I was picking up lefts and right at varying distances. Say, starting at 2' then 3' then 4' then 5'.

I dont care for paper tuning as the release can provoke a lot of what shows up on the paper and the paper makes things (to me) look exaggerated to whats really happening. Bare shafting into a non-directional backstop would be my choice. 3 yards to 15 yards bare shaft is my choice.
Looking at the draw length/bow weight, I would suspect the 400 shafts are the ticket and could be adjusted via head weight. JMO

Best of luck with it    

[KentuckyTJ]

Originally posted by ozy clint:
[QB] yes it's my border recurve. i have padded out the strike plate so that the arrow sits just outside of center.

Maybe its out too far, maybe not far enough. Try adding some or taking some away to see. Can't just start a little outside center and hope it will fly right.

[ozy clint]

car54- sorry i forgot to mention this is with the 58# limbs.

kentucky- when the arrow is nocked and you look down the center of the bow the edge of the arrow is inline with the center of the string, outside center of course.
i want to avoid messing witht the centershot for tuning only because i have 2 sets of limbs for this riser and there will be 3 arrow setups. 1 for the 58# and 2 for the 70#, (1 for normal hunting and 1 for water buff) i don't want to have to change the strike plate when changing between setups.
why could one not tune the arrow to suit a given centershot? you can tune with given arrow length by changing point weight and a given point weight by arrow length etc.

[KentuckyTJ]

Clint, true you can tune the arrow to the center shot, but I am just trying to think of something I thought you may not have tried yet. I am sure you have tried all other typical tuning steps. Didn't realize you were using other limbs and arrow setups also on same riser.

Hope you get it figured out.

[ozy clint]

no worries TJ, thanks.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

How tight are your nocks fitting on your string? you might need to loosen up your nocks.