Broadheads and Blunt Force Trauma

[KentuckyTJ]

After many years of shooting whitetail deer with stick and string I have come to a conclusion about deer reactions after they are shot.

This year I have shot two deer. One with a two blade head and the other with a three blade head. Seeing two very different reactions of those deer got me to thinking and reflecting on a deers reaction to an arrow going through it from all my past experience.

Note: No big bone was hit on either deer and both were unalarmed at the time of the shot. Also I've always used a cut on contact type head. No Muzzy type pointed heads.

The first deer was shot with a two blade head. The deer bounded off rather nonchalantly and walked off after its initial 30 yard bound. He made it about 50 more yards. The second deer was shot with a three blade head and after the arrow hit her she tore out of there as fast and she could and didn't change pace until her nose buried in the dirt 90 yards away.

This started me thinking back the other day to all the deer I have taken and their reactions afterwards. For years I have switched back and forth between two and three blade heads so I have also been pondering deer reactions after the shot and reflecting what head I was using.

I have pictures of almost every kill I have made over the years since digital cameras have come out and by looking at those pictures I can remember exactly every event of the hunt by viewing them and the deers reaction after the shot. Going by this info I have drawn a conclusion that deer shot with two blade heads in general do not bolt out of there like their tales are on fire and the ones shot with a three blade actually always have for me.

I think this must be due to the blunt force trauma difference between these two head types on its entry.

Opinions, your findings?

[Charlie Lamb]

TJ... I've found basically the same thing. What I wonder about is how long they live between the two.

If a deer takes off like a scalded dog and does that for 90 yards and piles up on the run, how many seconds is that.

On the other hand if the deer wanders off 80 yards at a more relaxed pace how long?

I love thinking about this stuff.

And thanks for fixing the picture of my doe.    

[ChuckC]

I agree, at least in part.  As I have stated before, I feel that deer are eaten by everythng, so their natural reaction is to get outta Dodge, fast.

If a large noise goes off (gun, noisy bow), they run, if something hits them and there is minor trauma (no bones hit except maybe ribs), they react and often jump run a bit and stop to look if it is chasing them or even what the heck it was in the first place.  That is why being quiet after the shot is a good idea.

If there is major trauma, a bone broken, especially leg bone, they get outta Dodge.

I have seen this time after time.  Although I have had experiences with three blade heads that did not cause the flight routine (low and tight to the elbow), I can see how they might react more to the three blade than the two, especially if the point of the three blade is not especially sharp (don't confuse pointed with sharp).

just my thoughts.

CHarlie, the doe I just killed did the scalded dog routine (from a two blade hit, albeit from the ground at 6 paces) and from time of hit to time of hearing her crash could not have been 5 seconds, but she went 80 - 90 yards.  Then rascals are fast.

I imagine her heart was pumping way more blood that way than if she calmly walked away.
Chuckc

[TylerH]

Over the past couple years, when no large bones were hit my findings are pretty similar to yours. Especially with narrow 2 blade heads the deer usually only run a short distance, look around, and usually fall over right there. 3 blades or wide 2 blades are similar to your finding where they clearly are dying on a dead run such as finding them wrapped around a tree or piled up on a briar thicket.

[Steve O]

I've shot a bunch of deer with 160g Snuffers that have hopped up, looked around, and walked off.

I killed an eland this July with an Abowyer Brown Bear. It hopped, looked around,walked off, and fell over 30 yards away. I also killed a big Waterbuck with an Abowyer Whitetal (slightly larger 2 blade). It bucked and I have never seen an animal run so FAST after a hit and he tumbled hard after 100 yards.

I think every hit/animal is different and two or three blade matters not so much.

[KentuckyTJ]

Maybe a matter of bow poundage? State your poundage. I shoot 50lb bows. A slower arrow would cause more ft/lbs to penetrate a hide than a faster arrow.

[D.J. Carr]

I always used 3 blade with wheelbows, and although last year was my first year trad hunting and first time using 2 blade head...
I tend to agree with your theroy, the deer I shot last year acted so calmly after the shot and walked away, I was sure I missed, Till he started dancing.

[LBR]

A ton of variables to consider.  How sharp, arrow flight, bow noise, speed, how alert or relaxed the animal was, the animal in general (been hunted hard or never saw a hunter), etc. etc. etc.

I haven't killed nearly enough deer to begin to figure it out.  In the places I hunt, deer pretty much turn inside-out if a mouse farts.  

Guess I need to do a lot more research....  :D

[Nook]

A few years back Fred Asbell had a article in Traditional Bowhunter about the better blood trail of 4 headed broadheads.  So, I tried Magnus four blades instead of two.  I double lung shot a doe at 12 yards.  She took off like I had slapped her on the butt.  I had never gotten that reaction from two blades.  No ribs cut.  I was shocked.  I took out the bleeder blades and have not gone back.  I'm now shooting single bevel grizzlys and am very pleased.  I shoot bows in the 55lb. range.

[Biathlonman]

Non cut on contact (muzzy 3 blade) have always ran hard.  Shot two with VPA 3 blade. Relaxed one wandered off alert one bolted. Gonna try a two blade this year.

[Bonebuster]

I use two blade heads almost EXCLUSIVELY, for nearly fifteen years now.

I use the same bow that I have for the past 16 years, drawing around 75lbs@29 1/2".

It is routine for me to watch a deer fall that I shoot.

The usual reaction is a jump/kick, a few bounds, slowing to a "j" hook to watch its backtrail, and down they go.

I have had them tear off and run till they drop, but it is way more common to have them stop and look back...UNLESS I am using a three blade.

I do not remember having a mild reaction to being hit with a three blade.

Thunderhead 160, Thunderhead 125, Rocky Mountain "Ironhead", and Muzzy 3 blades are the ones I have tried.

I had the lighter Snuffer three blade crush when I hit a shoulder blade...never tried the heavier built Snuffer.

[Wannabe1]

Thanks for this post. I have yet to get my first deer and find this to be very interesting. I have achieved great flight with a variety of broadheads but, for some reason I prefer a good 2 blade. I think I will just keep going this way and see what happens.  

[Green]

TJ - Thanks for sharing your observations.  These are the kinds of posts that have an incredible amount of value.  Well this, and anything Charlie posts.     :D    

[Steve O]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Maybe a matter of bow poundage? State your poundage. I shoot 50lb bows. A slower arrow would cause more ft/lbs to penetrate a hide than a faster arrow.

Mostly 70-77# for the big Snuffers and 60+ for the Aboyers but I don't think that is it...I think every animal, situation, and hit is unique.

[lt-m-grow]

It is fun to think about these things...I agree and do it myself.  But a major problem we have with conclusions like this it is they are still anecdotal...be it this conversation, scents, camo pattern etc.  It is near impossible to control the variables to get clear cause-effect.  

I am with Steve O on this one, but fun conversation.

[wooddamon1]

I've only killed deer with 2 blades, Magnus mostly from 50-55# bows. Trying my old Woodsmans this year.

I've watched 2 deer (relaxed for MI does) run dead into trees and crash. The others bounced off like I'd missed and died within 100 yards.

I hope to report back on what happens with the 3 blades.

Great topic to go with all the kill threads. Congrats everybody!    Good hunting!

[steadman]

Great thought TJ. I haven't killed enough animals to make an accurate assessment. I have cut myself several times being in construction and what I've noticed is a super sharp blade doesn't hurt for quite sometime. But what you're saying sure makes sense.

[T-Bowhunter]

I have shot three deer with  two blades Magnus, two of the deer trotted off and died within 30 yards, the other deer ran about 100 yards.

[Pat B.]

I agree 100%, TJ.....

killed a lot of critters over the last 45 years that support that belief

[Stumpkiller]

I've had many reactions to two edge heads (one blade).  A couple years ago I had a doe hop and then turn around at the hit and look back away from me at the arrow that passed through her lungs and was stuck in a root . . . so I put a second one in her and she dropped not five feet from he first hit.  I have also had them take off at a dead run.  

Could be the bow sound, the fact they were already alerted but not yet reacting, or the sound of the arrow strike.

This year I am trying three blades/edges for the first time.  We'll see if I, hopefully, get a chance at testing one out.