Wolf reintroduction

[KentuckyTJ]

Well I know this isn't directly trad related but it is interesting to see what some are trying to sell concerning the reintroduction of the wolf to the west. Admins delete if needed. This is pretty unbelievable to me.

Would love to hear what you western guys have to say about this.

 http://themetapicture.com/when-they-brought-these-wolves/

[The Night Stalker]

I seen that clip back in the spring, it is pretty remarkable. Something to think about. I do not think all western bow hunters are against reintroduction. I know Dick Robertson is happy, it gives him another predator to hunt. So design, he made a Wolfer bow.

[Friend]

Wool has some most desirable applications except when pulled over one’s eyes.

[centaur]

Yellowstone used to be a great place to watch elk and moose. Wolves have decimated both populations, and it has bled over well past the borders of the park. If you go to Yellowstone now, be prepared to see very few elk, because they are all wolf crap.

I believe that the reason the tree huggers wanted wolves introduced was that in time, prey populations would shrink to the point that human hunters would be stopped from hunting them, and for sure, elk hunting has suffered greatly where ever wolves have been allowed to run amuck.

Wyoming had a 'trophy' season on wolves in the Yellowstone ecosystem, and considered them predators in the rest of the state, and now the tree huggers have got that stopped, at least for now.

I know personally of wolves taking out 30 plus domestic sheep overnight in the Bighorns a couple of years ago. They don't just take the 'weak and the sick', they kill everything they can.

An argument that I have heard from wolf huggers is that the aspen groves are much healthier since the elk populations are down, and I suppose that is true. Aspen trees or elk? I will take elk every time.

[Stickbow]

How this guy can use the yellowstone zoo as a template for success shows how the myths have become facts.

This thread may get pulled and I understand completely. Anyone is free to contact me if they would like some boot on the ground insight of what has taken pace in my neck of the woods.

Watch what happens to Colorado in the next ten years...........

[centaur]

Some more food for thought….
 http://blog.eastmans.com/the-predator-death-spiral/

[Burnsie]

Wow, so wolves are the answer to everything, just introduce a few to the area and miracles begin to happen - every other form of plant and wildlife will flourish.
The guy has a sophisticated British accent - it must be true.

[Gooserbat]

Originally posted by Burnsie:

The guy has a sophisticated British accent - it must be true.

So does Piers Morgan.

[snag]

And when the wolves have decimated the deer and elk herds what will the Brit say then? There has to be control by hunters be it wolves or elk. But as stated above the anti's want to us the wolf to stop humans from hunting. Here in Oregon it is well underway also. They came over the Snake River from Idaho. We already had a predator problem with cats and bears because the good citizens voted for NO hunting cats with dogs and NO baiting bears. Now we have wolves.

[picapica]

I'm not sure there is much to "sell" ecologically. What the video describes has been widely observed and reported on for some time. Its also been quantitatively measured by biologists.

Here in the west, what's actually being SOLD are opinions on the qualitative side of the return of the wolf.  People are evaluating how they feel about the reduction in numbers of deer, elk, and coyotes, the significant growth of a new wildlife tourism industry, and the age old conflict between ranchers and predators.

Some opinion falls along predictable political lines; it appears that all  hunters are NOT singularly opposed to it; many feel as Aldo Leopold (an avid bow hunter) did that the presence of wolves helps make what we all love more complete.

[centaur]

Since wolves were once indigenous to Great Britain, New York City, Boulder and Berkeley, it seems only fair that we reintroduce them in those places so they can regain their original habitats.

[Hoyt]

I can still remember when there was a $25.00 bounty on wolves.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Basically what this guy is saying is Wolves are good and Deer are bad? Deer ruin rivers and make them meander. meandering streams kill beavers, fox and birds. Deer are the demise if all living beings.

I like how one can make a  huge assumption then fill it with crap to support a hypothesis.

Then again, its on the internet so it has to be true....   :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:

[Daz]

Full Disclaimer: I live in a place where we can hunt wolves.
And i do.

Having said that, we live in the age of information. We as hunters are on shaky ground with the non-hunting (not anti) public when we are unwilling to acknowledge the role of alpha predators in an eco-system.

Any first year university biology student will be able to roll out evidence to support the necessity of such predators, and the out-dated "we need to kill them all" mentality will only serve to cast a shadow over hunting collectively.

Is hunting tougher in areas where there are more alpha predators? Of course it is. That in and of itself is not a valid reason to John or Jane Q. Public for their removal.

Don't kid yourself. It is those average folks, not the raging hardcore anti's that will determine the future of our outdoor endeavours. If we cannot show good, evidence based management strategies for entire eco-systems then we will be branded as the problem, not the solution.

Each State should have the mandate to manage predators to numbers that reflect carrying capacities for healthy populations of all species, not just those upon which we can hang a tag.

[HuronArcher]

IMO picapica & Daz have it correct, and I believe Aldo Leopold described a healthy predator/prey relationship as "trophic cascading".  An interesting read for those interested.

[flinthead]

I do not live in a State that has wolves or will probable ever have them. But, as a hunter that would like to someday travel to hunt Elk and Moose in the west am alarmed to hear from folks that are seeing [what sounds like] their states run over by wolf populations destroying their Elk populations. Thanks for putting your views and experiences in this website. All easterners hear are the tree hugger views on this topic. Lately have seen a lot more concern about humans being attacked by Mountain lions, Black Bears, Grizzleys , coyotes, and wolves. Maybe we are seeing why our grandparents thinned these animals out many years ago with hunting seasons and bountys. Thanks, Roy

[frassettor]

I know some friends of mine that has a HUGE problem with them here in Wisconsin

[elkken]

We now have wolves in Washington and have had our share of controversy ... in the area I hunt whitetails there was some major problems with wolves eating sheep this year and I have seen their tracks in places I hunt.  

In the mid 1980's I hunted a fabulous ranch just outside Gardiner MT. The hunting was what dreams are made of, today it is not the same place when thinking of elk. My partner on that trip returned there this year on his way to another area to elk hunt and he was shocked at the difference. The pre wolf population of elk in Yellowstone was around 19,000 elk, today it is closer to 6,000. I strongly feel that the states should have the right to manage their own game programs and populations, I am not anti wolf but they need to be managed to the benefit of the entire state program / ecosystem.

As for that film, how can you believe a British accent that doesn't know deer from elk. It wasn't credible to me from the first sentence. I'm sure there were meandering rivers in Yellowstone before wolfs came along.

[jonsimoneau]

I don't live in a state with wolves but I can really understand the frustration of guys who do.  I mean the reintroduction of wolves might be OK but they need to be managed. Hearing a wolf howl now and then and occasionally seeing one might be cool from time to time but not at the expense of greatly diminished big game herds.  
     When I was a kid, coyotes were just beginning to show up in my part of Illinois.  The first time I saw one, I thought it was the coolest thing ever.  These days I wish they had never come here.  They eat an incredible amount of deer fawns.  Seeing does with doubles and even triplets used to be the norm and now I most commonly see does with only one fawn.  Not good in my opinion.  I can't imagine what it would be like in an area where wolves can run around killing unchecked.

[Stickbow]

Wolves cannot be managed by hunting and trapping. Therefore we will have an imbalance. Furthermore we (the western states) had them forced on us with the inability to manage them, at the state level,as their populations grew. Once the populations reached what the initial EIS deemed sustainable, lawsuits filed by pro-wolf groups kept our hands tied for several more years.

All one needs to do is look at the cow/calf recruitment for units 7,9,and 4 in Idaho. Tell me how that is sustainable.Look at the Clearwater, Selway, Lochsa and the Frank Church. Same thing. In response biologist are now creating longer seasons for Lions and Bears to alleviate the impact made by the Sacred Wolves. There are some units that are now 2 Bear units. Why is that....are they eating more Elk?

Read Outdoor Pastimes of an American Hunter and Tell me what Wolf Theodore Roosevelt hunted extensively in the West. It was not the Canadian Gray Wolf.

Do I hate Wolves? No I dont. I hate the fact that the public was lied to about creating healthy herds by taking the old and weak and like lemmings bought it. The Feds forced these on Idaho and Idaho now has to pay to manage them. And no we do not get to manage them the way British Columbia does. It is not apples to oranges